(April 18, 1975)

(Not reviewed by Chairman Mao)





Time: 5:00 p.m. to 5:30 p.m., April 18, 1975

Location: Zhongnanhai

Participants:

DPRK side – O Jin U, Member of the Political Committee of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea, Secretary of the Central Committee, and Chief of the General Staff of the Korean People's Army

Chinese side – Deng Xiaoping

Minutes taken by: Tang Wensheng, Wang Hairong




(Chairman Mao and President Kim Il Sung warmly shake hands)

Kim Il Sung: Chairman, how are you!

Chairman Mao: Welcome!

Kim Il Sung: We meet again this time, very happy!

Chairman Mao: Very welcome!

Kim Il Sung: This is Comrade Kim Dong Gyu, you have met him. Comrade O Jin U, also met before.

(Chairman Mao shakes hands one by one with Kim Dong Gyu, Member of the Political Committee of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea, Secretary of the Central Committee, and Vice President of the Republic; O Jin U, Member of the Political Committee of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea, Secretary of the Central Committee, and Chief of the General Staff of the Korean People's Army; Pak Song Chol, Member of the Political Committee of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea and Vice Premier of the Administration Council; Kim Mun Sop, Alternate Member of the Political Committee of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea and Colonel General of the Korean People's Army; Ho Dam, Member of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea, Vice Premier of the Administration Council and Minister of Foreign Affairs; Hyon Jun Guk, Alternate Member of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea and Ambassador to China; as well as Responsible Adjutant Kang Chi Man and Director of Protocol Bureau 1 of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Ri In Chun. Except for President Kim Il Sung and O Jin U, the other foreign guests withdraw. Host and guests take seats)

Chairman Mao: My legs are not good, I speak poorly, I have cataracts in my eyes, and my legs are bad. How are you?

Kim Il Sung: Very well. I haven't seen you, Chairman, for two years!

Chairman Mao: Very welcome, welcome! I don't pronounce well, speaking a foreign language.

Kim Il Sung: Very happy to see you again this visit.

Chairman Mao: Are your affairs going well?

Kim Il Sung: Not bad. We currently have three tasks: first, socialist construction; second, supporting the struggle for democratization in South Korea; third, solidarity with the Third World. These are our three central tasks, not too bad.

Chairman Mao: For us too: socialism, Taiwan, the Third World.

Kim Il Sung: Our line is the same, we learn from you, Comrade Chairman.

Chairman Mao: I also need to learn from you. South Korea and Taiwan are troublesome.

Kim Il Sung: It is a troublesome matter.

Chairman Mao: The Americans are entrenched there and refuse to leave!

Kim Il Sung: We saw your Premier Zhou's report at the congress, discussing the situation of the revolutionary struggle. I think the economic crisis of imperialism could lead to great chaos, and then the American devils will get out of South Korea and Taiwan.

Chairman Mao: It doesn’t want to leave! Now Cambodia and Vietnam are doing well.

Kim Il Sung: Yes, they have achieved great victories. Their victories are like our own, we feel very happy!

Chairman Mao: Did Prince Sihanouk go to meet you?

Kim Il Sung: Met at the station.

Chairman Mao: That's good.

Kim Il Sung: I will also find time later to pay him a visit. Your hearing is still good, yes?

Chairman Mao: Hearing, good. (Points to ear) This is good; (points to eye) this is not good; (points to corner of mouth) this is not good; (points to leg) this is not good. Are you going to Europe and Africa again this year?

Kim Il Sung: After returning, in early May to Romania and Algeria. Now there is news of Mauritania too. Some others haven't replied yet, times are fixed for these three countries. Because they came to Korea, they want me to go in return.

Chairman Mao: We are also in debt!

Kim Il Sung: So, they have been urging us many times, I plan to go once, take a look! It’s particularly important to go to Algeria, their Chairman has been to Korea. Every time our delegation goes, he wants me to come, saying what was not finished being discussed in Pyongyang, we should discuss it at his place, talking about the issue of Third World solidarity. He is the chairman of the non-aligned countries of the Third World, wants us to go and talk.

Chairman Mao: Boumediene is a man of considerable wisdom.

Kim Il Sung: This man is very resolute, I see he is very resolute. They are planning to hold the non-aligned countries conference next year, to meet in Sri Lanka, his idea is for us to attend the conference. We haven't finished discussing it yet, we'll go and talk it over. Attending the conference, we find it interesting, to strive for their support for our struggle, go take a look once. Mainly these few countries. If there is time, visit Bulgaria, it should be visited, but haven't replied yet.

Chairman Mao: Not going to Albania?

Kim Il Sung: Not decided yet. Relations with Albania are normal now, good.

Chairman Mao: That’s good. They don’t like Vietnam, nor do they like us. We invited Nixon, they were unhappy.

Kim Il Sung: Albania?

Chairman Mao: Mm.

Kim Il Sung: Was Vietnam also unhappy?

Chairman Mao: Vietnam was unhappy too.

Kim Il Sung: I believe they didn’t understand your revolutionary diplomatic line.

Chairman Mao: We invited Nixon, invited Kissinger. Kissinger is a very bad man, Nixon is relatively better.

Kim Il Sung: Kissinger may be a bit more cunning. When you invited Nixon, we published an editorial, absolutely supported it, and later, I made a speech, because it is your, Chairman, revolutionary line.

Chairman Mao: Mainly to contact the American people through Nixon.

Kim Il Sung: Good, they blockaded China for decades, this is a great victory. We understand very well. Why they are unhappy, we also do not know.

Chairman Mao: They were unhappy, now it's a bit better.

Kim Il Sung: I said at that time, this was a great victory for China. It wasn't that China went looking for them, it was a great victory.

Chairman Mao: I say Nixon himself wanted to come.

Kim Il Sung: This is a great victory, your victory is our common victory, should be celebrated. Don't know why they didn't understand. I talked to the Premier about this.

Chairman Mao: Our Premier is ill, had three operations in one year. One was on the bladder, operated twice. Then something grew outside the large intestine, had another operation.

Kim Il Sung: Vice Premier Deng Xiaoping talked about this matter.

Deng Xiaoping: We specifically asked their Ambassador Hyon Jun Guk to go back and report this matter.

Chairman Mao: Comrade Dong Biwu has passed away. The Premier is sick, I am also sick, Comrade Kang Sheng is also ill, Comrade Liu Bocheng is also ill. You are somewhat better. Is Comrade Choe Yong Gon's leg any better?

Kim Il Sung: His leg is not good, now a bit better. He also can't speak, can't understand his words. Firstly, he can't walk; secondly, he can't speak, can't be understood, I can't understand him either; thirdly, his heart is also not good. So, now he doesn't participate in work, reads books at home. Our Comrade Kim Il, he was originally very healthy, I originally planned not to go abroad, have him go in my place to visit and give replies. Last year he also fell ill, his legs are bad, can't walk, because a benign tumor grew in his brain, as big as an egg. We didn't discover it, we couldn't discover it, couldn't treat it either. President Ceaușescu of Romania called me to say they have good doctors who can treat it. We asked the Premier to send a plane to send him to Romania for surgery. During the brain surgery, he fainted three times. Now he's better, but his legs are still bad. He has returned home, able to work, but can't walk, he can't command his legs and arms. It's just these two, the rest are fine, younger ones. Choe Yong Gon is older, one year younger than the Premier, 76 years old. The rest of his body has no problems. He is at home, cannot attend Political Committee meetings because he cannot speak, what he says others cannot understand, so it's inconvenient to speak at large meetings. Generally, his opinions can be expressed, if his speech can't be understood, he writes opinion papers to exchange views.

Chairman Mao: I went to several places this time – Hubei, Hunan, Jiangxi, Zhejiang – stayed almost a year. Because you were coming, I came back to meet.

Kim Il Sung: Thank you.

Chairman Mao: Returned just a few days ago, only a few days since returning. I am 82 this year, almost done for, relying on you now.

Kim Il Sung: Thank you. I wish you health and a good body!

Chairman Mao: I can think, can eat, can sleep, these three are good.

Kim Il Sung: This is also very important, because your existence is a great inspiration to the Chinese people, the Korean people, the Asian people, the world people, and the Third World people, so your long life is a very precious thing for you all.

Chairman Mao: Done for.

Kim Il Sung: Why done for?

Chairman Mao: God invited me to drink spirits. (Laughs)

Kim Il Sung: Still early!

Chairman Mao: Still early? You tell me not to go? (Laughs)

Kim Il Sung: We don't want you to go.

Chairman Mao: I can't smoke anymore. Smoked for decades, now can't smoke anymore. You can smoke, good.

Kim Il Sung: I don't smoke often either, sometimes smoke, sometimes don’t, as I like. Chairman has a good memory.

Chairman Mao: Did you find oil there?

Kim Il Sung: Haven't discovered it yet. The Premier was very concerned, China also sent experts to drill, haven't discovered it yet.

Chairman Mao: Maybe there is some in the sea?

Kim Il Sung: Possibly there is, because your technology and our technology are still insufficient, we can only drill near the shore (sea).

Chairman Mao: I won’t talk politics, let him (points to Deng Xiaoping) talk with you. (Laughs) This man is called Deng Xiaoping.

Kim Il Sung: We have known him for a long time, he has done a lot of work, an old friend, an old comrade.

Chairman Mao: He (points to Deng Xiaoping) can fight wars.

Kim Il Sung: Not only can fight wars, but also can do political work, carry out ideological struggle.

Chairman Mao: And can also oppose revisionism.

Kim Il Sung: Yes, we know him very well. Vice Premier Deng Xiaoping and I haven't met for ten years.

Chairman Mao: The Red Guards dealt with him, now it's fine. At that time he was overthrown for several years, now he's up again.

Kim Il Sung: Very good, we welcome it!

Chairman Mao: We want him!

Kim Il Sung: We also welcome him!

Chairman Mao: You go and talk, I won't talk.

(Zhang Yufeng reports that the Korean side's journalists request to come in to take photos, and there are three delegation members who missed shaking hands earlier, asks what to do.)

Come. (Gestures)

(Points at Zhang Yufeng) She is from the Northeast, speaks the Northeast dialect, from Heilongjiang.

(President Kim Il Sung says a few words to O Jin U, O goes out)

Observing the situation, situation. (Points at Tang Wensheng) This person is an American, English name is Nancy Tang.

(O Jin U returns, says a few words to President Kim Il Sung)

Kim Il Sung: They aren't coming, don't wait, Chairman, you rest. (Stands up to take leave)

Chairman Mao: Wait a moment. (President Kim Il Sung sits down again) Do you still use chopsticks for eating? Two sticks?

Kim Il Sung: We use chopsticks for eating.

(Kye Ung Thae, Member of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea and Minister of Trade; Chong Nam Song, Member of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea and Minister of External Economic Affairs; and O Guk Ryol, Member of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea and Commander of the Air Force of the Korean People's Army enter. Chairman Mao shakes hands with them one by one. They wish Chairman Mao good health and long life.)

Chairman Mao: Wish the comrades well! (Waves hand)

(Chairman Mao prepares to see the foreign guests out, President Kim Il Sung insists it's not necessary. President Kim Il Sung and O Jin U shake hands with Chairman Mao and bid farewell)

Kim Il Sung: Chairman Mao, good health and long life!

O Jin U: May you live ten thousand years! (All laugh)



Thanks to Sakura Ayana for collection, transcription, and proofreading