(April 20, 1973)





　　[Luís Echeverría Álvarez (1922–) served as President of Mexico from 1970 to 1976. During his presidency, he enacted a new electoral law that relaxed requirements for party registration and candidacy, as well as lowering the minimum age for political participation. He encouraged private enterprises to expand production, allocated 16 million hectares of land to farmers, initiated public works projects, and boosted transportation and housing construction. Additionally, he increased funding for education, established research institutions, and created new universities and technical colleges. He actively developed relations with countries in Asia, Africa, and Europe, broadening economic and trade ties with the Third World.]






　　E: It’s not that I’m particularly hygienic; I just don’t smoke.

　　We were just talking about causing trouble—actually, it’s Mexico that’s been causing trouble.

　　Chairman Mao: You’ve been causing trouble for the United States, and we approve of that.

　　Ambassador Anguiano: We’re causing trouble for the U.S. within our own country, not going over to the U.S. to cause trouble.

　　E: Right now, there are ten million people of Mexican descent living in the southern United States.

　　Chairman Mao: Ten million?

　　E: Ten million people of Mexican origin. So Mexico has an influence in the U.S.

　　Chairman Mao: Then if they didn’t vote, it would be difficult for the president to win the election.

　　E: Mexicans living in the U.S. do participate in voting, and for many years they have consistently voted for the candidate who ultimately prevailed.

　　Chairman Mao: Were they all against Nixon, or did they support him?

　　E: They supported the other candidate. That’s the reality in the American South.

　　Chairman Mao: But I voted for Nixon. That’s why some so-called leftists now say I’m “right-leaning.”

　　E: Why did Chairman Mao vote for Nixon?

　　Chairman Mao: Because he was the most reactionary! And yet he was relatively less deceptive. Whenever the U.S. military went somewhere, revolution would break out there.

　　E: What everyone is concerned about now is that young people don’t want to go to war, but they can’t see a clear path forward. They live comfortably today, enjoying good material conditions, yet they remain dissatisfied with their future. This is a very profound problem.

　　Chairman Mao: I, and I suspect Premier Zhou too, never even thought about revolution when we were young. After reading Confucius’s works, I became a feudal thinker. How do you say “feudalism” in Spanish?

　　Huang: Feudalismo.

　　E: That’s right.

　　Chairman Mao: Later, I read books on capitalism and turned into a capitalist. Even by my twenties, I still had no idea that Marxism existed in the world. It wasn’t until after the October Revolution that I learned about Marx, Marxism, Lenin, and Leninism. Only then, through various twists and turns, did I eventually join the Communist Party.

　　E: You surely understand this principle yourself: it was practical struggle that led you to believe in Marxism-Leninism—that it is the only correct path.

　　Chairman Mao: Not exactly. At first, I was involved in urban workers’ movements, peasant movements, and student movements. I also participated in collaborations with the Kuomintang; there was no actual preparation for warfare. In fact, we should be grateful to that gentleman currently residing in Taiwan!

　　Premier Zhou: An instructive negative example.

　　Chairman Mao: It was he who forced me to take up guerrilla warfare in the mountains. Everywhere he was killing people, making it impossible to stay in the cities. There was simply no other choice but to retreat to the hills. And once the fighting began, it lasted for ten whole years, culminating in our arrival in Yan’an.

　　E: Yes.

　　Chairman Mao: Later, when the Japanese invaded, we made peace with Chiang Kai-shek and fought against Japan instead. After the Japanese were defeated, we resumed our conflict with Chiang Kai-shek.

　　E: We’re familiar with all of this.

　　Chairman Mao: As you can see, I was originally a teacher—a primary school teacher. I knew nothing about Marx, nor did I know anything about warfare. It was the circumstances that compelled me, overriding my own will. Those circumstances pushed me to study Marx and learn how to wage war. Now, however, circumstances are again forcing me down the path of “right-wing opportunism.” (Laughter) By inviting Nixon here and then Japanese Prime Minister Tanaka as well, my reputation has suffered. Who knows when I might suddenly swing back to the “left”—perhaps I won’t even get the chance anymore, since I’m already eighty years old. (E laughs) One cannot act against the dictates of one’s environment or the broader trends of history. One must simply follow along.

　　E: That is indeed the main reason.

　　Chairman Mao: Once you’re drawn into the situation, subjective factors begin to play a role.

　　E: Exactly. These two factors work together in tandem.




Thanks to Ayana Sakura for collecting, entering, and proofreading.