(June 28, 1972)





　　[Madam Bandaranaike, whose full name was Sirimavo Ratwatte Dias Bandaranaike (1916–2002), was a Sinhalese Buddhist from an aristocratic background. After marrying Solomon Bandaranaike, who at the time served as Minister of Health and Local Government, in 1940, she devoted herself to social welfare work and political activism. Madam Bandaranaike was an internationally prominent figure in the 1960s. In July 1960, she set a precedent by assuming supreme military and political authority over a nation as its head of government, becoming the world’s first female prime minister and attracting worldwide attention. On November 16, 1994, at the age of 78, Sirimavo Bandaranaike was sworn in as Sri Lanka’s new prime minister. This marked her third return to office, making her the first woman in history to serve three terms as prime minister.]






　　Chairman Mao: Some people criticize us, saying we do not support revolutionaries.

　　Bandaranaike: Among those revolutionaries, there is a perception that the governments of socialist countries—such as China and the Soviet Union—are all on their side. This impression has been created by their own leaders.

　　Chairman Mao: Actually, they don’t really understand; it’s quite difficult for them to do so.

　　Even in our own country, there are those who accuse us of cracking down on the leftists. Who exactly are these “leftists” of ours? They are the very people who set fire to the British legation. One day they wanted to overthrow the Premier, the next to oust Chen Yi, and the day after that Ye Jianying. All these so-called “leftists” are now behind bars.

　　Premier Zhou: The ringleaders are in jail. Over there in Sri Lanka, more than 8,000 people have recently been released.

　　Chairman Mao: Those young people were simply deceived.

　　A few years ago, there was great turmoil throughout our country—you may not be aware of it yet.

　　Bandaranaike: I’ve heard a little about it.

　　Chairman Mao: People were fighting everywhere, engaging in a full-scale civil war—what you might call an all-round civil war. Things are much better now.

　　Bandaranaike: So it was a civil war between fellow countrymen?

　　Chairman Mao: Both sides were supplied with weapons—about a million guns in total. One faction had the army’s backing, while the other did too, and they fought each other.

　　Premier Zhou: Officially, it was presented as a “gun-grabbing” incident, but in reality, guns were being handed out.

　　Chairman Mao: Our Foreign Ministry—the group led by Wang and Tang—is what you would call the “right wing,” or the conservative camp. They were sidelined, unable to eat or sleep properly.

　　Bandaranaike: Why was that?

　　Chairman Mao: Their power had been seized by those so-called “leftists.” For a month and a half, control was not in our hands but in the hands of these self-styled “leftists.” In truth, these so-called leftists were counterrevolutionaries.

　　After some time had passed—months, even years—the ultimate backer of this faction also disappeared, namely Lin Biao. (Mrs. Bandaranaike nods.) He boarded a plane bound for the Soviet Union, with the apparent intention of meeting God.

　　Bandaranaike: To meet God?

　　Chairman Mao: That’s right—he crashed en route and met his maker.

　　Bandaranaike: Oh, I see. (Laughter) What happened to the plane afterward?

　　It’s not entirely clear. Did it crash, or did it actually make it to the Soviet Union?

　　Chairman Mao: I don’t know myself. He was determined to crash.

　　Chairman Mao: The more “revolutionary” one becomes, the worse things get. The most extreme leftists are often the worst. Take Britain’s Labour Party, France’s Socialist Party, or Germany’s Social Democratic Party—they have all become bourgeois. As for the Communist Parties of Britain, France, and Italy, they are equally problematic, constantly criticizing us and claiming that only they adhere to true Marxism, while we are merely dogmatic. Even in India, there are three or four different communist parties, and Marxism itself has effectively dissolved.

　　Bandaranaike: The same situation exists in our country. Everyone claims to be Marxist, yet their interpretations of Marxism are tailored to their own particular interests.

　　Chairman Mao: Indeed, this is pretty much the case everywhere. In our own country, there are countless groups all proclaiming themselves to be genuine Marxists, while only I am deemed false. They have even given me a nickname: “B-52.”

　　Bandaranaike: And why is that?

　　Chairman Mao: Because I am said to be nothing more than an aggressor bent on dividing others. They also compare me to Qin Shi Huang. Qin Shi Huang’s reputation has never been very good, largely due to his infamous burning of books and burying of scholars—where he destroyed a portion of the written record and executed 460 intellectuals.

　　Premier Zhou: It was Confucius’s followers who branded Qin Shi Huang with this grave accusation.

　　Chairman Mao: The Americans have also spoken ill of me, going so far as to say I am even more Hitler-like than Hitler himself.

　　Bandaranaike: The Americans really said that?

　　Chairman Mao: That was the view held by earlier U.S. administrations; the current ones no longer make such claims. Today, they say I am only slightly better than Hitler. The Soviets, too, have criticized me, labeling me a dogmatist.

　　Their ambassador insisted that both China and the Soviet Union were socialist states. I disagreed, pointing out that neither of us was truly socialist. We were engaged in dogmatism, which is fundamentally anti-Marxist—as you yourselves have acknowledged. How could we still be considered socialist under those circumstances? Therefore, we are not socialist. We chose to call our ideological stance “revisionism,” which further disqualifies us from that category. Consequently, our two countries found it impossible to reach any common ground on ideological matters.

　　First, Romania acted as an intermediary to mediate peace talks, followed by Cuba, with the aim of ending the public polemics.

　　Premier Zhou: Guevara led the Cuban delegation.

　　Chairman Mao: But it was primarily Rodriquez who handled the negotiations. I insisted that we must continue our open debates—for ten thousand years, I told Kosygin.

　　Bandaranaike: Ten thousand years—that’s beyond our lifetimes.

　　Chairman Mao: Even after I am gone, my successors will pass away, and their successors after them will carry on the debate without end, for ten thousand years. When Kosygin visited in 1965, he argued that this was far too long—too long, indeed. In response, I offered to reduce the duration by a full thousand years, just to save face for him as the Soviet premier. Think about it: my concession amounted to a full millennium!

　　Bandaranaike: That’s quite remarkable.

　　Chairman Mao: We could never come to an understanding with Khrushchev. Even Brezhnev, his successor, continued to push for reconciliation. Moreover, they frequently attempted to instigate subversion within our country. They colluded with Defense Minister Peng Dehuai to stage a coup, but failed. They had also previously conspired with Liu Shaoqi, again without success. Later, they teamed up with Lin Biao, another defense minister who was also my “close comrade-in-arms” and “deputy commander-in-chief.”



Thanks to Ayana Sakura for collecting, entering, and proofreading.