Participants: Mao Zedong, Richard Nixon, Zhou Enlai, Wang Hairong, Tang Wensheng, Henry Kissinger, Winston Lord
Archive: National Archives and Records Administration
URL: https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/230144

[Begin Log]

February 21, 1972, 2:50-3:55 p.m.

Present

China

Mao Zedong, Chairman, Central Committee, Chinese Communist Party
Zhou Enlai, Premier
Wang Hairong, Assistant Minister of Foreign Affairs
Tang Wensheng, Interpreter

United States

Richard Nixon, President
Henry A. Kissinger, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
Winston Lord, Staff Assistant

[Omitted here is a paragraph describing the setting of the meeting.]

Mao: I believe in such things as, generally speaking, those who are weak can defeat those who are strong because the weak, after all, will gradually become strong. Americans, as I have come to know, are comparatively superficial about knowledge of China. That is to say, you do not understand China.

Nixon: I think that is true.

Mao: Dr. Kissinger knows China better than you do.

Nixon: He has studied China.

Mao: You know, I read some of Dr. Kissinger’s books.

Kissinger: They are very bad books.

Mao: He said that himself. (laughs)

Nixon: He understands.

Mao: But he understands China better than you do.

Nixon: That may be, but after this meeting I will know more than he does.

Mao: (laughs) I hope so.

Nixon: Everyone says I am a good listener.

Mao: I also listen. I sometimes agree with what others say.

Nixon: We have learned that we must listen carefully to what the Chinese say.

Mao: That is not necessarily true. We speak of what is on our minds. That is to say, we speak of our policy. As for small things, that is not so important.

Nixon: That is the way we do business.

Mao: I like to deal with people who speak straight. Even though I am not familiar with you, I should say I am not very happy with what you have said. Someone told me that personally you were not very happy with what I have said to you in the past.

Nixon: That is why I am anxious to have direct talks with you. If I might explain, Mr. Chairman, the reason for that is this: In my life I have read about revolutions. I have read about leaders of revolutions. Lenin was a great leader. But Lenin lived only a relatively short time after the revolution. I have also read about Chairman Mao. For 25 years I have read about you. Now the fact that we are meeting today is important, because of what you say. I will listen carefully.

Mao: Don’t believe it too much. Of course, I do say some things that are true.

Nixon: I am told you say things in a very subtle way.

Mao: That is not true. I say things in a common way. That is why they are spread around.

Nixon: I have read some of your poems and your statements. You have a quality of strength and also a quality of vision. What we must do is to find a way to see that we have differences, but not to allow these differences to prevent us from ultimately building a world in which all people can live safely, and at peace. And as for our own two peoples, we must find a way to build a bridge, so that we can have trade and cultural exchanges.

Mao: All right.

Nixon: There are big questions. I know, for example, that in my own country, as well as here, there are those who wonder why we are having this meeting.

Mao: You know, all those who are against you coming to China are the Kuomintang elements.

Nixon: I understand that.

Mao: As for what you said, I believe that is not just your individual view. I believe that represents the desire of some Americans. As for us, we take into consideration the desires of the people. That is the crucial question.

Nixon: That is exactly what I wanted to say. We must, in these talks that we will have privately, and also in the talks that Dr. Kissinger will be having with the Premier, to be perfectly candid and to present our differences.

Mao: Yes.

Nixon: But we must find ways to discuss our differences, so that we can find a common ground to build a world in which both of our peoples can live in peace. And after we have found that common ground, we can see that those differences do not cause us to become enemies in spite of our differences.

Mao: All right.

Nixon: For example, the question of Taiwan is one example.

Mao: This question is not the crucial question. The question is the world as a whole.

Nixon: Yes.

Mao: For instance, America, the Soviet Union, China, they all belong to the world.

Nixon: That is right.

Mao: Have you read my writings?

Nixon: Yes, I have read some of your writings.

Mao: They are not worth anything. I haven’t been able to convince the masses.

Nixon: When I read some of the things you have said, I think of some of the things that President Lincoln said. He said, “I am against slavery.”

Mao: Yes.

Nixon: That was a very difficult position for him to take in that time.

Mao: I feel comparatively happy because they say I am comparatively bellicose. I am used to hearing those things. I am not happy with these sorts of descriptions.

Nixon: I understand.

Mao: So, on that issue, let us each state our own positions.

Nixon: We can discuss those positions privately.

Mao: All right.

Nixon: The Premier and Dr. Kissinger can perhaps develop some proposals which we can discuss at a later time, perhaps this afternoon.

Mao: Fine. All right.

Nixon: In the talks that Dr. Kissinger has had with the Premier, he has been very forthcoming in laying out our policies.

Mao: Yes.

Nixon: I know that the Premier has also been very forthcoming.

Mao: Yes.

Nixon: What we must do is to find, if we can, some areas where we can agree.

Mao: All right.

Nixon: Let me say again, Mr. Chairman, we know you and the Premier have extended this invitation to us because you believe it is in the interest of China. We believe that this meeting is in the interest of the United States. If we believe that, then we must ask ourselves, how can we serve our people and the people of the world better by meeting, by talking frankly, and seeing where our differences are.

Mao: That’s fine.

Nixon: And also to find out whether we can get together.

Mao: All right.

Nixon: I think we will.

Mao: I think that is all right.

Nixon: If I may say so, Mr. Chairman, the world takes note of what you say, because when you say something, it carries.

Mao: I don’t carry much weight.

Nixon: He carries a great deal of weight.

Mao: I am now playing with signals.

Nixon: I understand.

Mao: Because I am not well.

Nixon: I understand. To meet with you, to talk with you, is then even more important.

Mao: I am not too well, but I am happy.

Nixon: I am very happy to be here.

Mao: I am happy to see you.

Nixon: The important thing is that we have a chance to launch a new long march.

Mao: All right.

Nixon: We have to create a new world.

Mao: All right.

Nixon: Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for having this meeting. I know that you did not feel well.

Mao: (laughs)

Nixon: And I want to say, too, that I know that what we have said today will not only be noted by our people, but will be noted throughout the world.

Mao: All right.

Nixon: Thank you.

Mao: All right.

[End Log]