Mao Zedong (hereinafter referred to as Mao): I've been talking all along, all along. I've only
shared a few bits of information. Guangzhou was the worst offended, and they're doing
better now. Wuhan is next.
Zhou Enlai (hereinafter referred to as Zhou): The Wuhan self-criticism hasn't been written
yet.
(At this point, Ye Jianying enters)
Mao: Stop talking about the "February Countercurrent." What was the nature of the
"February Countercurrent"? It was their response to Lin Biao, Chen Boda, Wang, Guan, and
Qi. Wang, Guan, and Qi, on May 16, 2016, wanted to overthrow everything, including the
Premier and the veteran marshals. The veteran marshals were angry and complained. They
did it openly at a Party meeting, causing a scene in the Huairen Hall! There were
shortcomings. It's all right for you to have a little argument. Just talk to me. We didn't
understand it clearly at that time. Wang, Guan, and Qi hadn't been exposed yet. Some issues
took years to clarify.
Zhou: Later, Yang Chengwu vigorously promoted absolute authority. He was promoting his
own.
Zhou: It was also Lin Biao's fault. Li Zuopeng made a powerful speech, which was simply
outrageous.
Mao: The issue is clear: it was Lin who supported it. He launched the "May 16th" movement,
calling for an overthrow of everything. He made it so difficult for these people to reach their
destination and raise their heads. At the 12th Plenary Session of the 8th Central Committee,
Chen Yi threw all the dirty laundry at himself. I told him to stop talking.
Zhou: There was a mass rally to denounce Chen Yi, and some foreign experts from the
Foreign Affairs Department also attended. I didn't understand what was going on at the
time. After the denunciation, they wanted to arrest Chen Yi, but the attendant at the Great
Hall wouldn't let them. He said, "The Chairman ordered us to protect him, so he should be
protected."
Mao: During the denunciation, he bowed three times, then back and forth. But after getting
in the car, he overturned his gesture and denied it again, saying, "You forced me to speak."



Mao: What about Yang Yong11?
Ye Jianying (hereinafter referred to as Ye): I didn't understand it at the time either.
Mao: Why was Liao Hansheng arrested12?
Zhou: Liao Hansheng had connections with He Long13. Even He Long, the Chairman, didn't
approve of this move at the time.

11 Yang Yong (1913 –1983), was founding general of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, and a former deputy
state-level leader. He served as deputy chief of the general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army and
commander of the Beijing Military Region, member of the Standing Committee of the National People's
Congress, and member of the 10th to 12th Central Committee. He joined the Communist Youth League in
1927, and the Party in 1930. He took part in the Long March and fought many battles for the Eighth Route Army
during the War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression. He commanded numerous battles during the
Second Guomindang-Communist Civil War. After the founding of the People's Republic of China, in January
1950, Yang Yong was appointed commander of the Guizhou Provincial Military Region and chairman of the
Guizhou Provincial People's Government. On April 18, 1953, he was appointed commander of the 20th Corps
of the Chinese People's Volunteer Army, and arrived in North Korea on May 11. He organized his troops to
participate in the counterattack in the summer of 1953 and commanded the Battle of Jincheng. In February
1954, Yang Yong was appointed deputy commander and chief of staff of the Chinese People's Volunteer Army,
and after the end of fighting in Korea was appointed head of the Beijing Military Region. He was criticised early
in the Cultural Revolution, but was appointed deputy commander of the Shenyang Military Region in July 1972,
assisting Chen Xilian in charge of combat and border defence tasks. In June 1973, he was appointed
commander of the Xinjiang Military Region.
12 Liao Hansheng (1911 –2006), a former deputy state-level leader, and senior general of the Chinese People's
Liberation Army. At the age of 13, He Long funded him to study at the Affiliated Primary School of Hunan
Provincial Second Normal School in Changde. Later, because He Long participated in the Northern Expedition
and left Hunan, he lost his funding and dropped out of school to return to his hometown. In 1926, he
graduated from high school in the county and participated in the peasant movement and the workers' armed
struggle. Later, he married Xiao Genggeng, the daughter of He Long's second sister He Wugu. During the Anti-
Japanese War, he mistakenly thought that Xiao Genggeng was dead in his hometown, and Liao married Yang
Bailin as his wife. Yang Bailin is Yang Shangkun's sister, formerly known as Yang Shangpu. In 1954, he was
appointed Deputy Minister of Defense. In 1955, he was awarded the rank of lieutenant general. In 1960, he
was appointed political commissar of the Beijing Military Region. He was accused by Lin Biao and others of
being one of He long’s “cronies” and jailed for five and half years. In 1973, he was appointed political
commissar of the Academy of Military Sciences. In 1975, he was appointed political commissar and first
political commissar of the Nanjing Military Region. In August 1977, he was elected as a member of the Central
Military Commission of the Communist Party of China. He followed Deng Xiaoping’s revisionist policies and in
1980, he was appointed first political commissar of the Shenyang Military Region.
13 He Long (1896 –1969), was one of the main founders of the Chinese Workers' and Peasants' Red Army and
the Chinese People's Liberation Army. He joined the Chinese Revolutionary Party after it was founded by Sun
Yat-sen in Tokyo in 1914 and attacked the guards of the Cili County Chief's Guard with two kitchen knives,
known in history as "two kitchen knives to make a revolution". On August 1, 1927, he served as the
commander-in-chief of the Nanchang Uprising, and then returned to western Hunan to form the Second Red
Army, served as the commander of the corps, and opened up the Honghu Soviet Area. He commanded
Communist armies during the War of Resistance against Japan and the Second Guomindang-Communist Civil
War. In 1954, he became vice premier of the State Council and vice chairman of the National Defence
Commission of the People's Republic of China. In 1955, he was awarded the rank of Marshal of the People's
Republic of China. He was persecuted by Lin Biao as an organiser of the “February Counter-Current” and died in
1969. In 1974, the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China announced the rehabilitation of He
Long.



Mao: The Yang Yong incident was orchestrated with the support of Lin Biao. Lin told me this,
but later denied it.
Mao: If you have time, there's a book by Lu Xun that's worth reading. In the postscript to
"Zhun Fengyue Tan," there's an article by Cao Juren, "A Remote Record of a Literary and Art
Symposium." There was a literary and art symposium planned, and Cao Juren was invited,
but he didn't attend. The newspaper reported him as the initiator. Cao then asked Long
Yusheng how the meeting went. Long replied, "Just some snacks and tea." Cao Juren replied,
"If you drink someone's tea, you become their person!" This incident illustrates the
complexity of the struggle at the time. Now, if you drink someone's tea, you become their
person? I don't think so. If you drink my tea today, do you become my person? Not
necessarily. The Premier and Kang Lao14 both drank their tea! If you drink their tea, you
become their person. Do you abandon the Party and the Central Committee?
The morning after "My Opinions" was completed, the Premier and Kang Lao went to see Lin
Biao. After reading it, he agreed. "My Opinions" didn't have a title at the time. Setting aside
some issues, the central question was the Presidency, which I left aside. The headquarters'
desire for me to be President was fake; Lin Biao's desire to be chairman and successor was
real. There were also some who genuinely wanted me to be President, and they disagreed
with Lin Biao. Some said the people wouldn't accept my not being chairman. I said, "I
haven't been President for over a decade." I can boast to you about this, but wanting me to
be President, to greet foreign guests every day, to send off foreigners, and to send letters of
credence—all that sort of thing—is nothing more than a call for me to see God.
Ye: The Chairman is very busy, and there's still a lot of stuff to be written.
Mao: I'm just bragging to everyone.
Mao: I've read all the negative material those people used to target Ye Jianying. They
escalated the situation step by step, first bombarding him, then overthrowing him. Later,
when they saw the situation was no longer favourable, they stopped. The "Red Creation"
wasn't all about the "May 16th Group." Among the negative material compiled, there was a
report in a Kuomintang newspaper claiming that the Red Army had embarked on the Long
March and that Ye surrendered to the enemy in Jiangxi. He did join the Long March, and all
of you veteran comrades were there. How could that be true?
Mao: The Red Army's tradition has always been not to attack one's own troops. You
(referring to Zhang Guohua) were a soldier in Wang Zuo's unit15.

14 Kang Lao refers to Kang Sheng. “Lao” means old and is commonly placed before a person’s surname to show
respect for them as an elder. Placing “Lao” after the surname is even more respectful.
15 Wang Zuo (1898 –1930), was a former bandit chieftain who operated in the Jinggang Mountains of Jiangxi,
from 1923, and then joined the Chinese Communist Party, becoming a protégé of Mao Zedong during their
formative period in the Jiangxi Soviet. However, he lost his life in the 1930 power struggle within the Chinese



Zhou: Later, you were the bugler.
Mao: Wang Zuo certainly made contributions, and he even joined the Party. He just couldn't
bear to leave his position and couldn't endure hardship. It's not good that Wang Zuo was
killed by Peng Dehuai!16 How could Communist troops fight Communist troops? Ji Zhentong
of the Fifth Corps shouldn't have been killed either17. It's better to kill fewer people. We
don't kill counter-revolutionaries; keeping them alive is beneficial to the Party because they
serve as living evidence. Why would you kill someone like Jie Fang?
Zhou: Wang Shiwei18 could have been spared, too.
Mao: It's much better now. The Kuomintang officials who arrested and tried Liu Shaoqi and
Chen Boda are still alive; they serve as living evidence.

Communist Party. As early as October of that year, Mao Zedong criticised the officials in power of the Jiangxi
Soviet for the assassination of his old ally.
16 In the late night of February 23, 1930, Peng Dehuai was awakened from his bed by Xiang Zhongfa's and Li
Lisan's two lieutenants, the local CCP committee secretaries Zhu Changxie and Wang Huai, who told Peng that
they had just received intelligence claiming Wang Zuo and Yuan Wencai had defected to Kuomintang, and thus
they needed Peng's signature to deploy troops to exterminate the traitors. Peng initially refused and argued
with them to defend Wang and Yuan. The lieutenants then changed their story by claiming that the intelligence
indeed appeared to be a rumour, and they were to be invited to a meeting to clear things up, and some force
would be deployed just in case. After leaving Peng Dehuai's camp, the lieutenants faked Mao Zedong's order to
lure both Yuan and Wang to the supposed meeting to discuss the military situation. But once Wang Zuo and
Yuan Wencai reached the meeting, they were shot in obscure circumstances, allegedly ambushed while trying
to rebel. Because Peng Dehuai had signed the order for the meeting at which they were ambushed, Mao and
others held him responsible. The murder of Wang Zuo resurfaced as an accusation against Peng Dehuai during
struggle sessions of the Cultural Revolution.
17 Ji Zhentong (1901 –1934), was a military figure in the Republic of China. He was a senior general of the
Guomindang’s National Revolutionary Army and the Chinese Workers' and Peasants' Red Army. In 1931, and
led his troops to Jiangxi to participate in the encirclement and suppression of the Chinese Workers' and
Peasants' Red Army. However, he recognised the danger to China of Japanese aggression after the Japanese
attacked Shenyang on September 18, 1931 and subsequently refused to participate in the encirclement and
suppression of the Communists, demanding instead to take his troops north to fight the Japanese. When
Chiang Kaishek refused to allow this, he and his men took part in the Ningdu Uprising of December 14 and were
reorganized into the Fifth Red Army. Ji Zhentong was appointed commander of the corps and joined the
Communist Party of China in January of the following year. In 1932, he expressed his desire to leave his combat
leadership position and go to the Soviet Union to recuperate. This led to a struggle with elements of the
Communist leadership. In August 1932, Ji Zhentong was sentenced to death by the Provisional Supreme Court
of the Chinese Soviet Republic, and later changed to 10 years in prison under the mediation of Mao Zedong
and others. In October 1934, on the eve of the Red Army's Long March, Ji Zhentong was ordered by Zhou Enlai
to be executed in Ruijin Yeping Village.
18 Wang Shiwei (1906 – 1947) joined the Communist Party of China in 1926. He was a writer, and influenced by
Lu Xun to write for the Left. In September 1937, he went to Yan’an. In March 1942, the Liberation Army Daily
published a series of his essays under the name Wild Lilies. In May, his writings, and those of others like Ding
Ling and Ai Qing were criticised by Mao as part of the rectification movement and the definition of the role of
literature and art. Criticisms of Wang Shiwei intensified, and he was expelled from the Party in October. The
Guomindang sought to split the Communists by publishing Wild Lilies, and Wang Shiwei was subsequently
denounced as a counter-revolutionary and arrested. On June 12, 1947, a Guomindang plane blew up the
detention centre where Wang Shiwei was held.  In the scramble to evacuate, his jailers secretly killed him. In
the spring of 1948, Mao Zedong led the Central Front Committee from northern Shaanxi to Shanxi-Chahar-
Hebei via Sanjiao Town, Linxian County, and for the first time heard that Wang Shiwei had been executed. He
expressed dissatisfaction with this.