Mao Zedong (hereinafter referred to as Mao): (To Liu Xingyuan and Ding Sheng) Comrade
Wei Guoqing, I'm relatively familiar with him. You two, I'm not so familiar with.
Mao: (To Wei Guoqing) Wei Baqun and you both have the surname Wei. Are you from the
same family?
Wei Guoqing (hereinafter referred to as Wei): We're outside the five degrees of mourning9,
not within. Wei Baqun studied at the Guangdong Peasant Movement Training Institute and
received instruction from the Chairman.
Mao: You can't say he learned anything from me. In name, I was the teacher and he was the
student; in reality, he was the teacher and I was the student. To be a teacher, one must first
be a student. He knew much more about Guangxi than I did. It's a pity this comrade has
passed away. I miss him dearly.
Mao: Peng Pai was from Haifeng County, Guangdong Province. His family was a large
landowner. While he was working in Haifeng, tens of thousands of people once worshipped
Guanyin Bodhisattva. Someone asked him if he would join them, and he said yes. He was
right to do so. After the worship, he told the peasants that Guanyin Bodhisattva was
unreliable and that they had to rely on themselves. So, he took up sticks and clubs to start a
revolution. He was good at agitation, but not good at organizational work. His mass work
was not very solid, and he did not do it well, and he later died. When he mobilized the
masses, he even used his own money to give to the peasants to quell the mass movement.
(Mao Zedong turned the topic to the historical struggle between lines.)
Mao: Do you understand the Party's past struggles over different lines? Our Party has a fifty-year history. China is so vast, with so many factions, yet there has never been a split. Isn't
that strange? Counting back fifty years, there have been ten struggles over different lines.
(Mao Zedong discussing the struggles during the Jinggangshan period)
Mao: At that time, Qu Qiubai and his group in Hunan obtained a pamphlet containing my
words, "Political power comes from the barrel of a gun." They were furious, asking how
could political power come from the barrel of a gun? So they removed my alternate
Politburo membership. Later, they said my Central Committee membership had also been

9 The five degrees of mourning refers to the rules of etiquette and personal relations to be observed according
to the Confucian patrilineal clan structure and patriarchal laws. They were widely observed in feudal China and
other East Asian countries. Being “within” or “outside” the structure determined such things as the wearing of
particular mourning clothes and patterns of obedience and authority.



removed. Somehow, word got to Jinggangshan, where they said I was expelled from the
Party. Some people were dissatisfied and wanted to write a report to the Central Committee.
I said no, expulsion was no big deal. Since I had been expelled from the Party, I couldn't
serve as a representative. But they said I could be a division commander. Later, they said I
could be a Party representative. At that time, we only had two regiments: the 31st Regiment,
formed from the Autumn Harvest Uprising Army, and the 32nd Regiment, led by Yuan
Wencai and Wang Zuo. Later, the Fourth Army was formed, with Comrade Zhu De as
commander, Comrade Chen Yi as director of the Political Department, and me as a Party
representative. At a meeting in western Fujian, I was told to step down. Later, someone
called me back, and I took over. Then there was Li Lisan's brief period. At the Fourth Plenary
Session of the Sixth Central Committee, Wang Ming seized power and held it for four years.
At the Fifth Plenary Session of the Central Committee, I was a member of the Politburo, but
they said I wasn't allowed to attend. In January 1935, an enlarged Politburo meeting was
held, chaired by Zhang Wentian, Wang Jiaxiang, and me. This was the Zunyi Conference, and
Zhang Wentian delivered a report. I was like a bodhisattva placed in a urinal, sinking for a
few seconds and becoming extremely stinking. After this meeting, I took charge. In the five
instances mentioned above, I was powerless; they didn't listen to me.
Mao: Later, Zhang Guotao emerged and created a split. Comrade Ye Jianying performed a
significant role in this matter. Zhang Guotao sent a telegram to Chen Changhao, saying, "Take
advantage of the situation and march south to thoroughly initiate intra-Party struggle."
Comrade Ye Jianying was the Chief of Staff at the front at the time. He showed me this
telegram, which is why we left. Otherwise, we would have been captured. Ye Jianying made
a significant contribution at this crucial moment, so you should respect him.
Our strategy at that time was correct. If the army hadn't reached the northwest, how could
it have established a base? How could we have established bases in North China and
Northeast China later? After arriving in northern Shaanxi, Zhang Guotao fled again. He was
very afraid of Hu Zongnan and subsequently fled to Xi'an to seek refuge with Hu Zongnan. If
Zhang Guotao hadn't fled, he would have been made a member of the Politburo. Do you
believe it?
Then came Gao Gang and Rao Shushi, who attempted to seize power. Then there was last
year's Lushan Conference. The things that came out of that conference, I think, were
underground activities, surprise attacks, organized, planned, and based on a program. That
program was “genius”, establishing a Presidency and overturning the agenda of the Second
Plenum and the line of the Ninth National Congress. That was their program. They were
organized, doing it in secret. They hid it from three of the five Standing Committee
members, and also from most of the Politburo comrades, with the exception of those senior
generals. The first part of the Second Plenum wasn't going well, but the second part was
good, raising everyone's awareness of reading and learning.



Mao: In recent times, my principles have been threefold: to practice Marxism-Leninism, not
revisionism; to unite, not split; and to learning from past mistakes to avoid ones in the
future, and curing the sickness and saving the patient. I also have three methods, like Cheng
Yaojin's three axes. The first is hurling stones. The first stone is criticising the quotations
compiled by Chen Boda. The second stone is criticising the report on the 38th Army. Their
persecution of the 38th Army is truly atrocious. How could they persecute their own troops
in such a way? They persecuted the 24th Army, the 31st Army, the 69th Army, and the 38th
Army. Why? The third is to criticize the report of the Jinan Military Region, add comments,
and let everyone discuss it. The second method is to add sand. The third method is to
undermine the foundation.
Mao: (To Liu Xingyuan, Ding Sheng, and Wei Guoqing) What do you think of the Lushan
Conference?
Mao: If you make a mistake, you should self-criticize. Your mistake was supporting a genius
like me and wanting me to be Chairman. How could I be a genius? I read Confucius for six
years and Capital for seven. In 1918, I became a librarian at Peking University. It wasn't easy!
The monthly salary was eight yuan. But the dormitory was small and very cold in the winter.
There was no coal to heat the kang. Eight of us squeezed onto one kang. We couldn't sleep
flat, so we had to sleep on our sides because there wasn't enough space. The seven of us
were going abroad to study, working part-time in France. The library had heating at the time,
so I would sleep there at night, warming myself and reading. I started reading Marxist-
Leninist books. It was during this time that I began to read Marxist-Leninist works.
Mao: (To Wei Guoqing) I think you're a bit too polite. During the Dien Bien Phu campaign,
you were adamant about fighting. At first, they wouldn't listen, but you were so powerful
that they finally listened.
Wei: I was acting according to the Chairman's instructions.
Mao: (To Wei Guoqing) Has the population of your ethnic group (the Zhuang) increased? It
should be around 40 to 50 million people. You could probably organize dozens of divisions.
Among the southern provinces capable of fighting, Guangxi is first, Guangdong second, and
Hunan third. Your province (Jiangxi) (referring to Wang Dongxing) is fourth.
(After Liu Xingyuan finished his work report)
Mao: I listened to you for ten minutes today. Chen Duxiu couldn't do it; he wouldn't listen.
He initially disagreed with setting up a peasant movement training institute, but later
agreed. I said, "Then please announce the enrolment." He said the proportion of peasants
was too large, while the proportion of workers was too small. It wouldn't work. Actually, at
the time, there were 400 million peasants and only 2 million workers, so we should train
more cadres for the peasant movement. But Chen Duxiu did have one strength: he wasn't
greedy for money. His clothes were spotless, and his desk was neatly arranged.



(Speaking of the Yan'an Rectification Movement)
Mao: During the Yan'an Rectification Movement, the idea of compiling a book was proposed.
Wang Shoudao was later put in charge, but his work proved unsuccessful. Hu Qiaomu was
then appointed. He possessed considerable knowledge and collected and studied numerous
documents, compiling two large volumes that were then printed for discussion. Through
study, the issues became more clearly understood.
(Speaking of the Battle of Jinzhou)
Mao: We were in the apple orchard, and our troops were not picking apples to eat. I said,
"Our troops have hope."
Mao: When we arrived in Beijing, someone proposed increasing military pay, saying, "The
capitalists eat rice and steamed buns, while our troops eat pickled cabbage. Life is too hard."
"Only by increasing military pay can we compete with the capitalists." I said, "Our troops
only eat pickled cabbage and can still fight. This shows great hope." Why should military pay
be increased? The person who proposed this was speaking for the pickled cabbage-eating
class.
Mao: The army must be cautious and not arrogant. Arrogance leads to mistakes. I haven't
been in charge of military work for a long time, but now I must. Governing the army simply
means studying the line, correcting unhealthy tendencies, avoiding factionalism, and
emphasizing unity. After entering the city, Nie Rongzhen was initially in charge of military
work, followed by Peng Dehuai, who had won battles. Then came Lin Biao, who couldn't
handle so much. In reality, He Long and Luo Ruiqing handled more. Then came Yang
Chengwu, and then Huang Yongsheng, who became Chief of Staff and head of the Military
Commission's working group. Some people in the working group caused a lot of trouble at
the Lushan Conference. I don't think Huang Yongsheng is very strong politically. First, the
army must be cautious, and second, the local governments must also be cautious. The army
must be cautious, and first, avoid factionalism. Comrade Li Desheng had objections to the
quotations they produced at the Lushan Conference. I said, "Li Desheng is such a fool! You're
not from their mountain top10. How can someone else give you their faction? How can they
give you their precious treasures?"
(Mao Zedong pondered for a moment, then turned the conversation to "Theory of Genius")
Mao: The Internationale encompasses the entire Marxist standpoint and viewpoint. You see,
it talks about slaves rising up to fight for truth. There has never been a savior, nor do we rely
on gods or emperors; we must save ourselves. Who created the human world? It was us, the
working people. At the Lushan Conference, I wrote a 700-word document that raised the
question of whether heroes create history or slaves. Have you discussed this? The

10 “Mountain-topism” was a term used during the revolutionary years to refer to acting on one’s own, not
accepting Party discipline, and practising factionalism.



Internationale embodies the principle of unity toward tomorrow, and communism must be
realized. Studying Marxism emphasizes unity, not division. Regarding the song "Three
Disciplines and Eight Points for Attention," you should pay attention to the first of the Three
Disciplines and the first and fifth of the Eight Points for Attention. These are the key points.
Without a focus, there can be no policy.
Mao: You must study seriously. When Luo Ruiqing served as Chief of the General Staff, he
was instructed to consult with Chen Boda on compiling a reading list, which resulted in a
selection of thirty books. I thought it was a good idea. Later, they said it would hinder the
study of the Quotations from Chairman Mao and put a halt to the study of theory. How can
senior cadres not even understand what materialism and idealism are? What can we do if
we have difficulty understanding the works of Marx and Lenin? There is a way. You can ask a
tutor for help.
I've reviewed the documents you (referring to the Guangzhou Military Region) wrote
regarding the three supports and two militaries. While some issues haven't been completely
addressed, they're still acceptable. I added four words to the Central Committee's
comments: "Study carefully." This means we must draw everyone's attention. Most of our
cadres are good, and the bad are always a minority. The bad should be appropriately
criticized, and the good should be praised, but not excessively. We shouldn't praise them too
highly. For example, some people say, "Super genius!" Praising someone in their twenties
with such high praise doesn't do them any good; it actually harms them. The local Party
committee has already been established. Shouldn't the decisions made by the local Party
committee be brought to the military Party committee for discussion? Isn't that perverse?
This was permitted before the local Party committee was established, but it's no longer
permitted now that the local Party committee is in place.
Mao: I have always disapproved of wives serving as secretaries and office managers. What
do you ladies think? You should do your work yourself, personally review and approve it, to
avoid mistakes. That's all for today.