(June 3, 1971)




Chairman Mao: Cover-ups are impossible to sustain. One day, one year, or in the next century, they will be exposed. It is better to speak the truth. Lies can deceive people for a while, but to deceive for decades is probably difficult.

Some parties attempt to insult other parties, believing themselves to be eternally correct and others eternally wrong. We have been labeled by others as "dogmatists" and "warmongers." Here we have a dictatorship, allegedly a "dictatorship of warlords and bureaucrats." (The audience laughs.)

Ceaușescu: There indeed exists such a practice of slapping labels and hurling insults at other parties.

Chairman Mao: Some parties, like yours, we bear no grudge against. Recently, I read one of your speeches in which you openly admitted past mistakes. Other parties do not admit theirs. Many parties have cursed us for over a decade, and we have never responded. We know the reason—it is called "having no choice but to curse." We can fully forgive such circumstances. At the same time, we also feel that we still have the qualification to be cursed, which is not bad. In 1960, the Bucharest Conference was imposed on you. Comrade Gheorghiu-Dej was truly in a difficult position! Can we blame you?

At that time, when others wanted to hold it in your country, it was hard to refuse. In 1956, when China held its Eighth Congress, Comrade Gheorghiu-Dej came to China, and I had a conversation with him. He told me some truths: It was truly unbearable! Wasn't the Political Information Bureau dissolved back then? It took some courage to accomplish that.

There is another issue: when a party holds a congress and invites guests—recently, the Czech Party held its congress. As soon as guests are invited, they start cursing others. Why not change this rule? Why invite guests at all! Our Ninth Congress did not invite any, and the sky did not fall.

As it turns out, the more they curse, the worse it gets. Many guests attend, but opinions are far from unanimous. It is better to focus on bilateral relations. For example, opposing imperialism—just oppose it, why organize some so-called joint action?!

Premier Zhou: Joint action, yet opinions are not unanimous.

Chairman Mao: Several years ago, I told some comrades: We won't participate. The sky didn't fall, and the earth still turns as usual.

Ceaușescu: If the practice of slapping labels and insulting others could stop, that would certainly be good. I can tell you that many parties advocate this. Even at the 1969 meeting of various parties and the congress of the Soviet Communist Party, many parties, including large ones, refused to join them in opposing the Chinese Communist Party. They very much hope to find ways to restore relations with the Chinese Communist Party.

Chairman Mao: It is also better to proceed bilaterally. Aren't we bilateral?

Ceaușescu: These parties, such as the Italian Party, the Spanish Party, and others, are all willing to engage in bilateral relations with you. Before we came here, they asked us to convey to you their desire to restore relations.

Chairman Mao: Restoration is possible, but what about the old debts from the past when the cursing was so fierce? Interest must still be paid on those debts. We have records of all these accounts. Now that the cursing has stopped, fine, but you must still settle those old accounts from the past. For example, it's the same with you—just a few words will suffice.

Ceaușescu: Some parties have already said so.

Chairman Mao: Saying it is enough.

Ceaușescu: Yes.

Chairman Mao: Splitting is nothing—fragmentation and division. For instance, the Italian Party—if you all come to China, you are welcome. If you want to curse, cursing in your newspapers is entirely permissible; there is freedom of speech. But you must also allow others freedom of speech. Whoever defecates on our heads, we will retaliate, no matter how large your country is or how many atomic bombs you brandish! You can visit our air-raid shelters and such things—these are preparations for war. Will you go to the Northeast?

Premier Zhou: We plan to visit Nanjing and Shanghai, and see a bit in Beijing as well. It can be arranged.

Chairman Mao: These things can also be prepared for.

Ceaușescu: Splitting has caused many losses—that is a fact. Many mistakes have been made—that is a fact—but mistakes should be corrected.

Chairman Mao: We won't correct them. We will persist in our "dogmatism" forever, never changing, not for ten thousand years! Kosygin's visit reduced it by a thousand years; your Romania's Bodnăraș's visit reduced it by another thousand years. I said: Oh dear! Two thousand years reduced all at once—further reductions would be very dangerous! Now only eight thousand years remain.

Ceaușescu: Can it be reduced a bit more?

Chairman Mao: Not a single year will be reduced! If you defecate on my head, I will retaliate! Small countries are excluded—if they say nothing, that's fine. But big countries—we won't buy their account! No lobbyist can persuade us; the more they talk, the worse relations become! We are all "warlords" and "bureaucrats," exercising "dictatorship" here, having "betrayed" Marxism-Leninism, utterly unqualified to join that "big family." You are qualified; we are not.

Ion Gheorghe Maurer (hereinafter Maurer): We are "nationalists."

Chairman Mao: You? You also have a few labels.

Maurer: Fewer, but still some.

Chairman Mao: That is to say, after pushing back a few times, they become fewer. For us, neither more nor less—eight thousand years (extends eight fingers). Everyone listen—no more reductions!

Lin Biao: Resolutely no reductions!

Chairman Mao: Look, the "warlord" has spoken. (Points at Lin Biao) He is one of the chief "warlords." I am also a "warlord"—a "warlord" plus a "bureaucrat."

Oh dear, others are truly remarkable! Khrushchev was called someone who "creatively developed Marxism-Leninism." I said, if he was such a good person who "creatively developed Marxism-Leninism," why did you discard him? I asked Kosygin, and he couldn't come up with any good reason—he didn't explain. I said, if you don't want him, can we have him? Invite Khrushchev to lecture at Peking University on his "creatively developed Marxism-Leninism." Kosygin refused, saying it wouldn't be good. (The audience laughs.)

This country, I don't think much of it. One thing: their articles, those lengthy articles from before—we published them in our newspapers, but they didn't publish our rebuttals. There must be some reason for this. The articles of a country under the "dictatorship of dogmatists, warlords, and bureaucrats" should be thoroughly refuted, letting all Russians know, rallying them to attack—but they won't do it. In this regard, they are even worse than the imperialists. American newspapers dare to publish our articles criticizing them, especially The New York Times.

You have been to America, while we are all country bumpkins who have never been. Recently, we sent a ping-pong ball over.

Ceaușescu: That ball was well played.

Chairman Mao: You approve?

Ceaușescu: We approve.

Chairman Mao: I recently read an article in a Budapest newspaper; it also approved. What's the big deal about playing ping-pong? U.S. Vice President Agnew said he disapproved. The leader named Steenhoven said: What we played wasn't ping-pong, but table tennis. He was playing word games there.

Ceaușescu: Playing ping-pong is very interesting.

Chairman Mao: Oh, you approve—I didn't expect that.

Ceaușescu: Especially since you have very good ping-pong players.

Chairman Mao: The leadership of ping-pong is no good; they were scolded by our Premier. They have a technical viewpoint and a championship mentality, always wanting to win and never wanting to lose. Out of all seven championships, we won four, and they still thought it was too few—what kind of talk is that?! The leadership of our Sports Commission—that is true bureaucratism and great-power chauvinism.

Our country has great-power chauvinism, and it is quite widespread, always wanting to win over other countries. Except for table tennis, our skills are not high, and we don’t have much to boast about.

A Frenchman came to China, and I argued with him. He kept saying how good China is, how good. I said, no, what you’re saying is wrong. He cited China’s launching of satellites as an example. I said, there are now over two thousand satellites spinning in the sky, and we have only launched two—at that time, it was still just one. You French have launched only one, Japan has also launched one, just three in total, while other countries have over two thousand. This is not something to boast about.

Ceaușescu: Admittedly, this is only a beginning, but it is a good beginning. Because there is always a beginning.

Chairman Mao: This view, I think, accords with the facts. As for climbing onto the moon, we currently have neither the ability nor the interest, nor do we greatly admire those who climb the moon. On this point, we are equal—you haven’t climbed, and neither have we.

Ceaușescu: Yes, we have no such idea in the future either; it costs a lot of money.

Premier Zhou: There is no air, and no water.

Ceaușescu: And there are no practical results, only some scientific value and curiosity value.

Premier Zhou: The problems on Earth have not yet been solved, yet they want to go to the moon—absurd.

Ceaușescu: The struggle for the moon costs a great deal.

Premier Zhou: Monopoly capital profits.

Ceaușescu: The peoples of various countries pay a great price for this competition.

Chairman Mao: The peoples of various countries?

Ceaușescu: That is, the countries engaged in this matter.

Chairman Mao: Just two. What is a superpower?

Ceaușescu: It is difficult to define.

Chairman Mao: It means having many atomic bombs, occupying many places, possibly controlling other countries while others cannot. Ah, speaking only of things inauspicious for others, and again cursing the superpowers.

Premier Zhou: I will say this again tomorrow at the mass rally. Anyway, when speaking of the superpowers, they will not walk out.

Chairman Mao: Aiya, if you walk out, with ten walking out, there are only five pairs.

Premier Zhou: When speaking of the superpowers, they do not walk out.

Chairman Mao: When speaking of social-imperialism, they don’t walk out either, do they? We have conferred a title on it, calling it social-imperialism, social-imperialism. It was Lenin who said it, not us. In words, it is socialism; in deeds, it is imperialism.

Premier Zhou: When the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia, we used the embassy of Ambassador Duma to say this; it began from that time.

Thanks to Sakura Ayana for collection, transcription, and proofreading