(Reconstructed from memory, not reviewed by the person concerned)

(October 1, 1968)

Talks with Comrade Balluku, Member of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Albanian Party of Labor and Vice Chairman of the Council of Ministers

Time: 10:30 a.m., October 1, 1968

Place: Lounge on the Tiananmen Rostrum

Interpreter: Fan Chengzuo

Chairman Mao (hereinafter referred to as the Chairman): Long time no see. When was the last time we met? There was one meeting where Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping were also present, right?

Balluku (hereinafter referred to as Ba): That was in 1964. The most recent time was in February last year, that is, 20 months ago, when Comrade Kabo and I came together.

Chairman: Oh, yes. Things were still very chaotic then; the working class had just risen up.

Ba: Your strategic plan has been realized. At that time, you told Kabo and me that the Cultural Revolution had two possibilities—failure or victory—and that the question of which road would prevail had not yet been resolved. (The Chairman nods) And now this revolution has already won a great victory.

Chairman: The working class now dominates everything in all major cities; in the vast majority of rural areas, the peasants have also gained dominance. Previously, up until the first half of this year, students were the vanguard of the movement; now they have fallen behind.

Ba: Yesterday, our delegation visited the Beijing General Knitting Mill. A leading cadre who had made mistakes introduced the situation to us by speaking about his own experience. I had a lesson in class education. He made mistakes and was not convinced by the criticism from the masses. Later, he accepted the help of the masses, recognized his mistakes, and corrected them.

Chairman: How is he doing now?

Ba: He has been elected deputy director of the factory’s revolutionary committee. The revolutionary masses helped him with Marxist-Leninist patience.

We are also carrying out a revolutionary movement in our country to educate cadres and to ferret out bad elements, such as renegades and rich peasant elements who have wormed their way into state organs. Such a revolutionary movement will be very good for educating the younger generation.

Chairman: Many young people have not suffered hardships. (Asks interpreter Fan Chengzuo) Have you suffered hardships? (Answer: Yes. My family were urban poor. From the age of eight, I was an orphan who had lost both parents.)

Their Ministry of Foreign Affairs is divided into two factions. Wang Zhongqi’s faction is an ultra-“Left” faction, with very serious anarchism. He (pointing to Fan) was in the middle at that time and did not side with Wang Zhongqi’s ultra-“Left” faction. The ultra-“Left” elements in this faction are a minority; the majority of the masses can be won over.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is such a large ministry, with over 3,000 people, a concentration of intellectuals.

Ba: It will need to be streamlined in the future.

Chairman: Nine-tenths should be cut.

(Balluku offers the Chairman a cigarette)

Ba: The emergence of Khrushchevite revisionism in the Soviet Union was a bad thing, but it has provided a lesson for revolutionary Communists in all countries.

Chairman: This is a temporary phenomenon in history.

Ba: In the midst of such turmoil, there is surprisingly little activity inside the Soviet Union.

Chairman: There are some groups, secret groups. Although the Soviet Union is bad, it can still supply material goods, such as grain. If there is not enough domestically, they can buy it abroad. If famine does not occur, there will be no rebellion.

Take another example, a capitalist, imperialist country like France. Although such a large movement occurred in May this year, its supply of goods to the people was not interrupted. Under such circumstances, it is still difficult to overthrow its regime.

Ba: Your Party is about to hold its congress, isn’t it?

Chairman: Yes. We need to sum up our work and elect the central leadership.

Ba: The comrades at the knitting mill also told us about the issue of Party consolidation.

Chairman: All factories must undergo a reform. People’s communes, schools, and offices must all undergo a reform. The masses must be mobilized to carry out the reform. For a ministry like the Ministry of Foreign Affairs with 3,000 people, there is no way without mobilizing the masses.

Of the ambassadors we sent to your country, two were bad, which we did not know originally. One of them published an article in the newspaper opposing the Communist Party; for the other, we have not yet found out whether he published anything, but he had already defected to the enemy. Theirs is not a question of making mistakes, but a contradiction between the enemy and ourselves.

Ba: For those who have made mistakes, we should follow your teaching: give them treatment, cure the sickness to save the patient. For enemies, of course, we do not do this. Once the masses are mobilized, things become easier. This is your brilliant teaching: trust the masses.

Chairman: We have no way, because they don’t listen to us, but they do listen to the masses.

The Bulgarian Telegraph Agency “refuted rumors,” saying there are no foreign troops in Bulgaria, but someone told our embassy that there are.

Ba: We have intelligence proving that there are Soviet troops on Bulgarian territory. The Italian ambassador to Bulgaria disclosed to us: The Soviet Union has 9 to 10 airborne divisions in Bulgaria.

Chairman: Can there be that many?

Ba: Yes. Because they are airborne divisions, the total number is about 35,000 to 40,000 men, with about 3,000-4,000 per division. There are also missile units. These troops are stationed at Bulgarian naval and air bases. The Soviet troops all wear Bulgarian military uniforms.

Chairman: What is the purpose of the Soviet Union sending troops to Bulgaria?

Ba: First, the situation in Bulgaria is unstable; there is unrest within the country. The Soviets also know that Zhivkov is no good, lacks prestige, and they fear Zhivkov’s downfall and the Left coming to power. They also fear the emergence of another pro-Western, Dubček-style revisionist in power.

Second, they claim it is for defense against an attack by NATO countries. There are no such signs now; this possibility does not exist.

Chairman: Tito is also very nervous. Yugoslavia has become our indirect ally. It has contradictions with the Soviet Union. We must exploit their contradictions, including those with Romania and Dubček. The Eastern European countries are split in two.

The Soviet armed occupation of Czechoslovakia has caused discontent among many people in the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, Poland, East Germany, and elsewhere; they do not approve.

Ba: Yes. There are also contradictions within the occupation forces, between officers and soldiers. Now, the Soviet Union is transferring troops from some union republics, such as Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, who do not understand Russian, to Czechoslovakia for rotation.

Now Yugoslavia is strengthening its border defenses on the Bulgarian side to prevent a Soviet ground attack on Yugoslavia through the Macedonia region.

(At this moment, the massive literary and artistic contingent of the parade passed through the square. The Chairman was invited to the front of the rostrum, and the conversation was interrupted.)

Thanks to Visarion for collection and compilation