(Not reviewed by the author)

(November 26, 1967)





　　[Thakin Ba Thein, also known as Ko Sin (1914–1997), served as Vice Chairman of the Communist Party of Burma and later became its Chairman after 1975. In September 1964, the Central Committee of the CPB adopted a revolutionary line of “winning the war and seizing state power,” marking a significant turning point in the party’s history. By early 1968, the CPB had established a new revolutionary base area in northeastern Burma and set up grassroots people’s democratic governments that relied on poor and hired peasants while uniting with middle peasants. Following the assassination of CPB Chairman Thakin Than Tun on September 24, 1968, Thakin Ba Thein assumed the role of Vice Chairman. Ko Sin was his pseudonym used within China.]



　　Time: 5:30 p.m. to 6:55 p.m., November 26, 1967

　　Place: Hunan Hall, Great Hall of the People

　　Attendees:

　　Burma side: Ko Ming, Lo Hsien, Ho Kao, Yang Guang, Ku Fang, Wu Ming, Kan Ti, Zhao Ming, Zhao Yun

　　China side: Zhou Enlai, Chen Boda, Kang Sheng, Jiang Qing, Qi Benyu, Yao Wenyuan, Liu Ningyi, Yang Chengwu, Li Tianyou, Xu Qixiao, Shen Jian, Cheng Xueyu, Yuan Huabing, Chen Jiefu, Wang Yang

　　Interpreter: Chen Chuange

　　Stenographer: Lü Huixiang



　　(Before the conversation began, Chairman Mao met with and posed for photographs alongside 134 representatives from the Burmese Communist Party and the Lo Hsien forces who had arrived in Beijing.)



　　Chairman Mao (hereafter referred to as “the Chairman”): How long have you been in Beijing?

　　Ko Sin (hereafter referred to as “Ko”): Comrades have been in Beijing for just over a week. Those like Ho Kao and Yang Guang arrived somewhat earlier—more than a month ago.

　　The Chairman: Have any of those comrades been to Beijing before?

　　Ko: No. They are extremely pleased to be able to meet Chairman Mao this time, which serves as a great source of encouragement for them.

　　The Chairman: How many comrades have come to China in total?

　　Ko: The first contingent consists of 330 people, and there will be additional groups following.

　　The Chairman: For how many years have you been in China?

　　Ko: Seventeen years.

　　The Chairman: (Turning to Ko Ming) Have you also been here for seventeen years?

　　Ko Ming (hereafter referred to as “Ming”): I have been in China for a little over two years.

　　Ko: We have spent seventeen years in China without being able to return to Burma. Now that the Chairman’s policy has achieved victory, we are very happy at the prospect of going home. (At this point, the Chairman smiled.)

　　Ming: We have persevered in the countryside for more than a decade and hold Chairman Mao in the highest regard. It is thanks to him that we have been able to endure. May I ask the Chairman to sign my copy of Quotations from Chairman Mao as a memento? (The Chairman signed Ko Ming’s book.)

　　I shall now take my leave. Thank you very much, Chairman.

　　The Chairman: There is no need to thank me.

　　(At this point, Ko Ming withdrew.)

　　(To Ko Sin) How many times have we met?

　　Ko: Four times. Once during the Burmese peace talks in 1963, and most recently on National Day this year.

　　The Chairman: That means five years have passed since 1963. Are all those comrades doing well upon their return?

　　(At this moment, Lo Hsien and three other comrades entered and joined the discussion.)

　　Ko: Very well. This is Comrade Lo Hsien, Comrade Kan Ti, Comrade Zhao Ming, and Comrade Zhao Yun.

　　The Chairman: (Addressing Lo Hsien) You have been in China for over a decade, yet I have rarely seen you.

　　Lo Hsien (hereafter referred to as “Lo”): I am delighted to meet the Chairman.

　　The Chairman: Have you been staying in Sichuan or Guizhou?

　　Lo: I reside in Guiyang.

　　The Chairman: You do not seem very old.

　　Lo: I am forty-five years old. I could still fight for another thirty years.

　　The Chairman: Certainly. Forty-five, fifty-five, sixty-five, seventy-five—any age is fine.

　　The key is to learn through struggle; training sessions can be helpful, but true learning comes from actual combat. If one does not engage in battle, there is little to be gained. Simply studying military and political theory in classrooms, I find, yields limited understanding.

　　You have been acquiring such knowledge here in China, but when you return home, you must not simply copy it wholesale. Adapt it to your own specific circumstances.

　　Do you maintain contact with Thailand?

　　Ko: We have contact with southern Thailand, but not with the north.

　　The Chairman: (Turning to Lo Hsien) In your country, your ethnic group is considered a minority. Approximately how many people belong to this group?

　　Lo: Two hundred thousand.

　　The Chairman: Are there other minority groups as well?

　　Ko: Many—over a hundred distinct ethnic groups. Minorities comprise 45 percent of Myanmar’s population.

　　The Chairman: Policies concerning ethnic minorities are of great importance.

　　What is your country’s total population?

　　Ko: Twenty-five million.

　　The Chairman: And what is its land area?

　　Ko: 262,000 square miles.

　　The Chairman: That makes it a sizable nation—comparable to Vietnam, slightly larger, in fact.

　　Ko: Indeed, it is somewhat bigger than Vietnam. Myanmar’s territory exceeds the combined size of Romania, Yugoslavia, and Albania.

　　The Chairman: Twenty-six thousand square miles equate to roughly six hundred thousand square kilometers—about the same size as Sichuan Province.

　　Have all of you been in China for more than ten years?

　　Ko: Comrade Ho Kao has been here for seventeen years, Comrade Yang Guang for seventeen as well, Comrade Ku Fang for fifteen, and Comrade Lo Hsien for eighteen.

　　As a result of the Liu-Deng line, we spent our prime years in China. Nevertheless, it is not too late; we can still continue the struggle.

　　The Chairman: It is indeed not too late. When did your armed struggle begin?

　　Ko: In 1948.

　　The Chairman: So nearly twenty years have passed.

　　Ko: March 28 next year will mark exactly twenty years.

　　The Chairman: This situation is unique: a war waged between two major imperialist world wars, during a period of relative global peace. In China, the revolution only commenced after the First World War. It was seven years later, from 1918 to 1925, that the Northern Expedition took place. Chiang Kai-shek launched his coup in 1927. From then until after the Second World War, the Chinese Communist Party and the Kuomintang were locked in conflict—a protracted struggle.

　　World war may yet break out again. However, you should not wait for it.

　　What is your assessment of Ne Win’s likelihood of inviting foreign troops into the country?

　　Ko: In 1965, our party chairman stated that if Ne Win proved unable to prevail, he might bring U.S. forces into Burma. I believe such a scenario is currently unlikely.

　　The Chairman: That possibility does exist, though it seems remote.

　　Ko: We would actually welcome the deployment of U.S. troops. However, judging from current developments, substantial U.S. military reinforcements are already being sent to South Vietnam, making it difficult to transfer additional forces to Burma. We have received intelligence indicating that British officials have advised Ne Win against placing undue reliance on U.S. assistance for Burma.

　　The Chairman: Yet, when they face imminent defeat, foreign powers are often brought in nonetheless.

　　Ko: Precisely. Our party has already prepared itself ideologically for this eventuality.

　　The Chairman: The introduction of foreign troops is not necessarily a negative development. For instance, the United States maintains a military presence in Thailand. Despite the presence of imperialism and feudalism, the Thai Communist Party has made commendable progress and holds considerable promise.

　　Among your comrades, are there more individuals who originate from rural areas or urban centers?

　　Ko: The majority come from rural regions.

　　The Chairman: Did any of you receive formal schooling back home?

　　Ko: A few did. Most of our comrades only began acquiring literacy after coming to China. Both Burmese and Jingpo languages were learned here.

　　The Chairman: Do you have textbooks available?

　　Ko: We use secondhand texts.

　　The Chairman: You could also compile your own materials. What are your families and children currently being taught?

　　Ko: The family members residing in China are preparing to participate in the Burmese revolution in the future. To this end, they are studying five specialized fields: medicine, radio operation, firearms repair, cultural performance, and explosives manufacturing.

　　The Chairman: I was referring specifically to the children.

　　Ko: The children are also receiving instruction.

　　The Chairman: Are they learning Burmese?

　　Ko: Yes, they are studying Burmese.

　　The Chairman: That is excellent. (Turning to Lo Hsien) You should likewise teach your ethnic minority language. Do you have any literature written in your native tongue?

　　Lo: Yes.

　　The Chairman: Can you yourselves read and write Burmese?

　　Lo: Most of us are fluent in Burmese.

　　The Chairman: That is a favorable circumstance. Are there separate schools specifically for your community?

　　Zhou Enlai (hereafter referred to as “Zhou”): Separate educational facilities are now being established.

　　The Chairman: Are these children studying together with Chinese students?

　　Zhou: No, they are not.

　　The Chairman: Are they based in factories or in rural areas?

　　Zhou: Some are in rural areas, others in factories.

　　The Chairman: Have you set up any industrial operations?

　　Lo: The majority are engaged in factory work, including a mercury-processing plant.

　　The Chairman: Where exactly is this factory located in Guizhou Province?

　　Lo: In Huangping County.

　　The Chairman: Wasn’t that an area through which the Red Army passed during its Long March?

　　Lo: Indeed, it was.

　　The Chairman: This occurred in late 1934 and early 1935, a particularly challenging period for us. At that time, our Party suffered from the errors of the Wang Ming line.

　　I understand that several members of the Sheng Yiben faction within your Party, who supported Liu Shaoqi, have defected. Is that correct?

　　Kang Sheng (hereafter referred to as “Kang”): One individual has fled.

　　The Chairman: More than one person has left.

　　Kang: Two others have not gone. They now follow what is known as the Ba Ding–Guo Tai line. One is named Ba Ding, and the other is Guo Tai.

　　Ko: There are two within the country, and one in China as well—Wang Jiang.

　　The Chairman: I am familiar with that name. Have I met this person before?

　　Ko: Yes, I have.

　　The Chairman: He has written to Ne Win expressing his intention to surrender. As long as they do not actually surrender, a small number of adherents is not a serious concern. (Turning to Lo Hsien) How many people were with you when you first arrived?

　　Lo: Approximately four hundred.

　　The Chairman: How many remain today?

　　Lo: Three hundred and forty-seven.

　　The Chairman: Why has the number decreased?

　　Lo: Some have died, and others have returned home.

　　Ho Kao: Those who have gone home are individuals who originally lived within China. They traveled to Burma to join their units, but upon re-entering Chinese territory, they were sent back home.

　　The Chairman: These comrades favor peace over war.

　　Kang: How many children have been born recently?

　　Ko: Over four hundred and eighty—nearly five hundred.

　　The Chairman: When you return to Burma, will your families feel reassured?

　　Lo: Yes, they will.

　　Ko: Absolutely. We are also planning to undertake further efforts to mobilize those among our supporters who are politically reliable to join the Burmese revolution.

　　The Chairman: Very good. Let us proceed accordingly. Does Burma possess any industrial capacity?

　　Ko: There is some industry present.

　　The Chairman: Agriculture, industry, transportation, and oil extraction are all developed.

　　Ko: Yes.

　　The Chairman: Where are most of your comrades currently stationed?

　　Ko: Primarily in Sichuan Province.

　　The Chairman: And where are they concentrated at present?

　　Ko: The majority are located in the Nujiang River basin, near Baoshan.

　　The Chairman: Although you have been in China for over a decade, you do not appear particularly aged.

　　Ko: Comrade Zhao Ming is the youngest member, at thirty-five years old. Both Zhao Ming and Zhao Yun were still children when they first came to China.

　　The Chairman: Thirty-five years old, having resided here for seventeen years—so he must have been eighteen when he arrived.

　　You are in your forties, is that correct?

　　Lo: Forty-five.

　　The Chairman: (Addressing Ko Sin) Are you roughly the same age as him?

　　Ko: I am older—fifty-four years old.

　　The Chairman: The primary challenges you face still revolve around weapons and medical supplies. With regard to weaponry, you largely depend on obtaining it from Ne Win.

　　Ko: (Turning to Lo Hsien) Remember this: acquire weapons from the enemy.

　　Lo: I pledge this to the Chairman.

　　The Chairman: Only by seizing weapons from the adversary can you ensure a steady supply. In certain regions, such as the Pegu Hills, it is virtually impossible to rely on external sources.

　　Ko: That is correct—you must obtain weapons from the enemy.

　　The Chairman: I am not suggesting that we will refuse to provide you with arms. Such support serves as a supplementary measure. The fundamental requirement, however, remains your ability to capture weapons directly from the enemy.

　　Some types of ordnance, such as landmines and hand grenades, can be manufactured locally. You may also establish workshops to repair firearms.

　　Producing weapons and ammunition, as well as repairing guns, does not pose a significant challenge. The real issue lies in the political dimension. Military matters are secondary; politics takes precedence. Firstly, there is the question of whether to continue the struggle or to cease hostilities. Some individuals have chosen the latter, and others will undoubtedly do so in the future.

　　Secondly, there is the matter of mass mobilization. Will you rely on the people, or will you alienate them? Relying on the masses ensures sustained success and resilience.

　　In the revolutionary base areas, schools should be established to impart political education, military training, combat skills, and other essential competencies.

　　Even though Zhao Ming and Zhao Yun were quite young when they arrived, they already possessed some experience.

　　Ko: Indeed, they had a degree of prior experience.

　　The Chairman: (Addressing Lo Hsien) Were these individuals part of your force?

　　Lo: Yes. They joined shortly before reaching the Chinese border and had been serving in the ranks for about three months prior to entering Chinese territory.

　　The Chairman: There are also Jingpo people residing within China. Have any of them ever volunteered to serve in your ranks?

　　Lo: Yes, several have done so. However, we have since arranged for their repatriation.

　　The Chairman: Why send them back? You could always call upon them again when needed to bolster your forces.

　　How many Jingpo people live in China?

　　Zhou: Over eighty thousand.

　　The Chairman: They are concentrated along your border and could serve as a valuable reserve for you.

　　Does the Burmese ethnicity maintain connections with other groups—for example, the Thai, Malay, or Indian peoples? Or are you an entirely distinct people?

　　Ko: There is ongoing debate regarding the origins of the Burmese people. Some scholars argue that they migrated from Tibet, while others suggest a route via Gansu. The Burmese people are situated between two major civilizations—the Indian and the Chinese—and both cultures have exerted influence on Burmese society. Nevertheless, the Burmese have managed to preserve their unique identity. The Burmese share no close ties with the Malays, and they have frequently been at war with the Thai.

　　The Chairman: What about relationships with Indian ethnic groups?

　　Ko: None that I am aware of.

　　Kang: Burmese grammar bears a striking resemblance to Japanese grammar.

　　Zhou: Is Burmese closely related to Tibetan?

　　Ko: Not really.

　　The Chairman: I, too, am uncertain about the origins of China’s various ethnic groups. Currently, there are differing views: some believe that northern peoples originated in the northwest, while southerners from Guangdong and Fujian came from Southeast Asia.

　　The Chairman: It appears there were two distinct migration routes.

　　India likely received influences from the West, resembling Western cultural traits. What about the armed Naga groups?

　　Xu Qixiao (hereafter referred to as “Xu”): They have already departed.

　　The Chairman: Where are they now?

　　Xu: They have reached Jiangxinpo.

　　Zhou: During their departure, an escort unit engaged in combat with enemy forces, ensuring their safe passage.

　　The Chairman: Did they carry a radio transmitter?

　　Xu: Yes, they did.

　　The Chairman: Did your group also bring a radio?

　　Ko: We did.

　　The Chairman: A radio is essential.

　　Ko: We are fully prepared and await further instructions.

　　The Chairman: Excellent.

　　Kang: Comrade Ko Sin is eager to return home.

　　The Chairman: Hurry back! Hurry back!

　　Kang: Please inform Comrade Ko Sin that we will no longer be retaining him.

　　The Chairman: We will not keep you here any longer. Our bureaucratic delays have caused you to wait for a full week.

　　Ko: A week’s delay is insignificant.

　　Zhou: There have been no recent changes in the military situation.

　　The Chairman: Do you have any other questions or concerns?

　　Ko: Our primary concern remains our desire to return home.

　　I pledge to the Chairman: First, rest assured that we will certainly win this war. Second, should we be assigned international tasks, we guarantee their successful completion.

　　Lo: I was particularly pleased to hear the Chairman suggest mobilizing Jingpo people within China to join our ranks. This is something I have long advocated for, as have my comrades.

　　The Chairman: Go forth and recruit as many as you can—especially younger individuals.

　　Lo: I am very encouraged. The Jingpo communities in China and the Kachin people in Burma are closely connected.

　　The Chairman: They have a duty to assist you—an internationalist obligation—but you must collaborate with them (referring to the CPC).

　　Lo: We are already part of the Red Army under the leadership of the Communist Party of Burma.

　　The Chairman: That is excellent. The Burmese constitute a major ethnic group in your country. Until they achieve liberation, your smaller ethnic groups cannot hope to attain freedom either.

　　Lo: We are operating under the command of the Communist Party of Burma.

　　The Chairman: That is satisfactory.

　　Kang: He has already joined the Communist Party.

　　The Chairman: Very good.

　　Zhou: Recently, he has also been involved in activities related to the Kachin Independence Army.

　　The Chairman: Do you have any subordinates within the Kachin Independence Army?

　　Zhou: Some individuals were formerly under his command.

　　The Chairman: Back in the day, U Nu paid close attention to your forces, fearing that you might launch a counteroffensive. How long have you been in the military?

　　Lo: Over twenty years—since I first joined the resistance against Japan.

　　The Chairman: When did Japan occupy Burma?

　　Ko: Japan invaded Burma in 1942 and was driven out in 1945.

　　The Chairman: From 1942 to 1967, that spans twenty-five years. Did figures like U Nu and Ne Win begin their political activities during the anti-Japanese resistance?

　　Ko: U Nu did not participate in the anti-Japanese struggle. He was a puppet of the Japanese regime, essentially following their lead. In the past, Chinese newspapers reported that he had taken part in the resistance, a claim with which our comrades strongly disagree. When the Japanese forces withdrew from southern Burma in 1945, U Nu accompanied them all the way to the border.

　　The Chairman: Quite a character. You mentioned two points earlier.

　　Ko: First, I assure the Chairman that the Communist Party of Burma is determined to seize power through armed struggle. Second, should we be entrusted with international missions, we pledge to fulfill them successfully.

　　The Chairman: What exactly do you mean by that?

　　Ko: After Burma’s liberation, we intend to extend support to Thailand, Malaysia, Pakistan, India, and Indonesia. Recently, the Thai Communist Party has requested our assistance, but we currently lack personnel to dispatch there. Similarly, the Malaysian Communist Party has asked us to send cadres to Malaysia, a task we have yet to accomplish.

　　The Chairman: Will these personnel be sent directly from China, or via Burma?

　　Ko: They would return through Burma and then proceed to Malaysia.

　　The Chairman: The numbers involved are relatively small.

　　Liu Ningyi: There are just over forty cadres, with a slightly larger contingent of overseas Chinese nationals.

　　The Chairman: Over the past few days, Malaysia has witnessed protests sparked by the devaluation of the pound sterling, leaving the populace dissatisfied.

　　With that, our discussion concludes.






Source: Newly Discovered Speeches of Mao Zedong from Confidential Archives, edited by Song Yongyi, published by National History Press, July 2018







Thanks to Vissarion for collecting and compiling.