Numa: I see that the great victory of the Chinese proletarian Cultural Revolution has greatly
raised the political consciousness of the Chinese people.

Mao: Anarchism has also developed greatly.
Numa: Perhaps that is so, but we have not seen any evidence of it yet.
Mao: It is good to expose such trends so that people can learn from them.
Numa: Your cadres are very modest.
Mao: They have no choice but to be modest, otherwise the masses will fight against them.
Numa: There is a significant difference between your cadres and ours.
Mao: There is no significant difference. They all have higher positions, higher salaries, and
ride in cars. Someone has to hold those higher positions; if no one does, what would
happen? Higher salaries, better housing, and riding in cars are acceptable, but they must not
act arrogantly and must treat workers and peasants as equals. They must not constantly
scold or insult people. Some village party secretaries have low salaries, poor housing, no
cars, and no real power, yet they still act like big shots. When the movement began, it scared
them half to death.
Numa: Foreigners say China is very chaotic, but we haven't seen any of that.
Mao: Let it be chaotic for a while. You can go around and about. Once it becomes chaotic, it
will no longer be chaotic. If it doesn't get chaotic enough, it won't work. It's about time now.
We are preparing for another year of chaos.
Numa: What do you mean by ‘the more chaotic, the better’?
Mao: Without chaos, there's no clear winner or loser. Hunan, Hubei, Jiangxi, Anhui, and
Zhejiang—except for Anhui—are all doing well. China has gained some experience. The coal
mines in Hunan have resorted to violence. Production dropped from tens of thousands of
tonnes to just a few tonnes, but now it's back up to 20,000 tonnes.
Numa: How did you resolve such contradictions so well?
Mao: The backers were exposed, and the masses had their fill of fighting. At this point, a few
words from the Central Committee were enough. Don't listen to those who blow their own
trumpets about how great China is. Africans are humble, so we hope you will come. Europe
and Asia are no good.



Numa: We have also begun to oppose official arrogance.
Mao: I do not recommend that you also launch a Cultural Revolution. We have been building
our army for forty years, our country for eighteen years, and have been fighting for twenty-two years, with a People's Liberation Army that has been fighting for decades, so we
launched the Cultural Revolution.
Numa: We will not launch a Cultural Revolution, but we will study the theory and global
significance of the Cultural Revolution.
Mao: This Cultural Revolution will reform certain state institutions, including the military.
When Nkrumah [2] came last time, he did not anticipate that his own military would
overthrow his regime. I think you should return home sooner rather than later.
Numa: There are still people at home, but I will try to return as soon as possible.
Mao: You should return home as soon as possible.
Numa: I will try to return as soon as possible.

[1] At the Berlin Conference of 1884, imperialist powers divided Africa, designating the
region east of the Congo River as a Belgian colony, now known as Zaire, and the region west
of the river as a French colony, now known as the Republic of the Congo, with its capital in
Brazzaville. On 15 August 1960, the Congo gained full independence and adopted the name
Republic of the Congo. China and the Democratic Republic of the Congo established
diplomatic relations.
[2] Nkrumah, leader of Ghana's independence movement, declared independence for the
Gold Coast on 6 March 1957, naming the country Ghana, and was elected Prime Minister.
On 1 July 1960, the Republic of Ghana was proclaimed, and he was elected president. In
February 1966, during his visit to China, a coup d'état occurred in Ghana, and the
government he led was overthrown. He later went into exile and settled in Guinea.