Mao Zedong (hereinafter referred to as Mao): Welcome. Is this your first time in China?
Kaunda (hereinafter referred to as Ka): Three of us have been here before. My wife, I, and
several others are here for the first time.
Mao: Zambia is in the tropics, and various animal husbandry and agriculture industries can
be developed.
Kaunda: Yes. Zambia has great potential. In the past, it was under imperialist control, and
many things were impossible to do. Now, cattle ranching is being developed in all regions.
Mao: Zambia covers over 700,000 square kilometers, roughly the size of several Zhejiang
provinces in China.
Kaunda: Our main problem is transportation, so we need to develop the iron and soybean
project through Tanzania.
Mao: We need to conduct an investigation, right? We must be determined and start
working.
Mao: Tanzania hasn't decided yet who will help, right?
Zhou Enlai (hereinafter referred to as Zhou): Tanzania has decided that we will help with the
investigation.
Kaunda: I mentioned the railway issue in passing. I've already discussed this issue in detail
with Premier Zhou Enlai. We'll let you know after we return and discuss it with President
Nicolas. The track widths of our railways differ from those of Tanzania: Zambia's are wider,
and Tanzania's are narrower.
Mao: When all African countries gain independence and drive out imperialism, we can
develop railways.
Zhou: Africa has been divided by imperialism.
Kaunda: That's right. Many African ethnic groups have been artificially divided.
Mao: This is imperialism's divide-and-rule system.
Kaunda: We can only repay your help by helping freedom fighters in other regions and
enabling them to gain independence.
Mao: That's not a repayment. Countries that gained independence earlier have an obligation
to help those that gained independence later.



Kaunda: Yes, I completely agree with what you said, Mr. Chairman. My words may be a little
crude, but my point is that only in this way can we truly express our appreciation for your
assistance.
Mao: You have only been independent for two and a half years, and you still face many
difficulties. You have also helped countries that have not yet gained independence.
Kaunda: That's right.
Mao: We have been independent for eighteen years, so we should help them even more.
Kaunda: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mao: Without the liberation of the whole world, China cannot ultimately liberate itself, and
neither can you.
……………………….
Mao: One day, imperialism will come to us. We have experience. Whether it's imperialism or
domestic reactionaries, we can drive them out. When he (referring to Zambian Minister of
Cooperation, Youth, and Social Development Banda) arrived in 1963, you weren't
independent yet. If your country had been independent for eighteen years like ours, your
national development and cultural education would have made great progress. By the time
we reach that point, you still have fifteen years left. By then, your railway would have been
open to traffic. It's only 1,700 kilometers long, and the investment is only 100 million
pounds. It's nothing special.
Kaunda: I really hope to have the opportunity to speak more with Chairman Mao, but since
he's very busy, we feel a little bad about it.
Mao: It doesn’t matter. I’m very happy to talk to you.