(Not reviewed by Chairman Mao)

(May 28, 1966)





Time: 4:55 p.m. to 5:35 p.m., May 28, 1966
Place: Room 118, Great Hall of the People
Attendees:

Nepalese Side: Ambassador Lendir Subba, Foreign Affairs Secretary Yadu Nath Kanal, Editor-in-Chief of the Social Weekly Mani Raj Upadhyaya, and Department Head Basudev Dhufan of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Chinese Side: Lin Biao, Zhou Enlai, and Chen Yi
Interpreter: Ji Chaozhu
Record Keeper: Luo Jianming





Deputy Prime Minister Kirti Nidhi Bista (hereinafter referred to as Bista): First, may I convey His Majesty the King of Nepal’s greetings to Chairman Mao. His Majesty wishes Chairman Mao a long life.

Chairman Mao: Thank you very much. Is the King’s health improved now?

Bista: The King is doing quite well. He had a mild heart attack two months ago, but he has since recovered, returned to Kathmandu, and is currently resting.

Chairman Mao: That’s good. We are glad to hear it. The King suffered the heart attack in the western part of the country. Is that region quite high in elevation?

Bista: Not really. I was with the King when he fell ill; it happened in a plain area, at a relatively low altitude.

Chairman Mao: How high is it?

Bista: About 200 meters.

Premier Zhou: The highest point of the road we built inside Nepal is only 2,000 meters above sea level. Their side is rather flat, while ours is much higher.

Bista: That’s right. Nepal does have many mountains, but our roads mostly follow lower-lying routes.

I am deeply grateful for this audience with Chairman Mao. China is a great nation, and the purpose of our visit is to further strengthen the already very friendly relations between Nepal and China. We have held cordial talks with Premier Zhou Enlai and Vice Premier Chen Yi, and we are thoroughly satisfied. On this occasion, I would like to once again express our gratitude to your great country for continuing to provide economic assistance to Nepal. I have not forgotten my honor of visiting you in 1965, when you told me that China has always respected the independence of all countries, whether large or small, and stands ready to help us develop our nation. You have not only articulated this noble principle in theory but also put it into practice. Your attitude toward Nepal has been entirely correct.

Chairman Mao: What matters most is practical action—whether it benefits you or harms you. We need to distinguish between genuine friendship and superficial goodwill that actually undermines your interests. Your country is led by your King, and foreign interference is undesirable. Aid accompanied by political or economic conditions would be detrimental to you. India keeps accusing us of aggression against them, yet we have no intention of going there at all.

Bista: We do not believe India’s claims either.

Chairman Mao: At first, India claimed that we were invading Tibet. That was indeed true.

Bista: Tibet is an integral part of China, so the question of invasion simply does not arise.

Chairman Mao: That’s what they said. As for India’s own aggression, we had no such plan. With a population of over 400 million, how could China possibly invade India? There is one unresolved issue—the so-called McMahon Line, drawn by the British. It covers a sizable area of about 90,000 square kilometers. We do not recognize the McMahon Line, but in practice we have never crossed it; instead, we adhere to the Line of Actual Control. In 1962, Nehru’s forces invaded our territory, prompting us to respond. We advanced deep into Indian territory, reaching near Tinsukia. However, we quickly withdrew because their troops had been routed—some destroyed, others scattered—and there was no longer any enemy to engage. Upon our withdrawal, we returned their guns, artillery, trucks, and other equipment to just north of the so-called McMahon Line.

Bista: We have all read reports about this. China’s unilateral withdrawal from the occupied areas was an act of great magnanimity.

Chairman Mao: If we hadn’t withdrawn, they would have had no one left to fight. We went out to battle, but they had no army. Who were we supposed to fight? Indians sometimes seem to take things lightly. The Indian people themselves are generally good; after all, people everywhere are fundamentally decent. It is the Indian government that has been unfriendly toward us. Nevertheless, diplomatic relations between our two countries remain intact.

Bista: If India showed a bit of compromise, this issue could be resolved fairly quickly.

Chairman Mao: It won’t be easy. We cannot recognize that line, nor can we simply abandon it. Letting it linger for another century or two would be acceptable.

India was once a colony, unlike your country, which resisted British rule and maintained its independence throughout.

Bista: Continuing down this path brings no benefit to India. They themselves face numerous unresolved problems, and adopting such an aggressive stance abroad serves no purpose. They should instead cultivate friendly relations with China. Asian and African nations ought to respect one another and coexist peacefully, but they fail to grasp this principle.

Chairman Mao: Their mindset is different.

Bista: There are no conflicts between Nepal and China. Our two countries are clearly very friendly and closely connected. We respect great China, and our people hold Chairman Mao and the Chinese people in high esteem.

Chairman Mao: Very good. Mutual respect is essential.

Bista: During our visit to China, we have been met everywhere with warmth and respect. In factories, communes, and sports academies, we have seen how deeply Chairman Mao’s ideas have taken root among the Chinese people, who are full of vigor and actively building their nation. We have also spoken with Chinese citizens and raised various questions, receiving answers that have greatly satisfied us. It is evident that the current views and modes of thinking among the Chinese people differ markedly and positively from those I observed during my previous visit.

Chairman Mao: Who is the ambassador?

Ambassador Lendir Subba (hereinafter referred to as Subba): I am Subba.

Chairman Mao: How is it written?

Basudev Dhufan (hereinafter referred to as Dhufan): Like “Su” in Soviet Union and “Ba” in Cuba.

Chairman Mao: And how is it written in your own script?

(Bista writes Subba’s full name in Nepali script.)

(Chairman Mao examines the name Bista has written.) Subba.

(Assuming a questioning tone) And what is your full name?

(Bista writes his own name in Nepali script.)

(Turning to Ambassador Subba) How long have you been in China?

Subba: Two years and eight months.

(Bista hands the paper with his name written on it to Chairman Mao.)

Chairman Mao: (Looking carefully at Bista’s writing) Your script is quite beautiful—does it resemble Tibetan script?

Bista: No.

Yadu Nath Kanal (hereinafter referred to as Kanal): There are some similarities, though it is not the same script; there are certain parallels.

Premier Zhou: Does it have any connection to Hindi script?

Bista: Nepali script has its roots in Sanskrit.

Chairman Mao: Sanskrit is very ancient.

Premier Zhou: It is one of the oldest scripts on the Indian subcontinent.

Bista: Indeed, it is very old.

Premier Zhou: Is it an alphabetic script?

Bista: Yes.

Chairman Mao: That’s more advanced than Chinese characters.

Premier Zhou: West African countries like Mali and Senegal once used pictographic scripts as well, but those were later lost.

Bista: I’ve heard that Chinese characters are undergoing reform.

Chairman Mao: It’s an improvement, not a revolution. A revolution would involve adopting Latin phonetics.

Premier Zhou: The goal is to transition to a phonetic system.

Chairman Mao: Phonetic characters are much simpler.

(Turning to Dhufan) Didn’t you study in China? Chinese is notoriously difficult to learn, and it isn’t even aesthetically pleasing.

Premier Zhou: Can you read Chairman Mao’s poems?

Dhufan: I can read them, but I need someone to explain their meaning.

Chairman Mao: (Turning to Dhufan) How many years did you spend studying Chinese?

Dhufan: Seven years.

Premier Zhou: Including five years at university?

Dhufan: One year on classical Chinese, then one year on modern script, followed by five years at university.

Chairman Mao: There’s no point in studying classical Chinese; it’s useless.

Dhufan: Nowadays, the emphasis is on the present and away from the past.

Bista: Chairman Mao looks very healthy.

Chairman Mao: Barely so.

Can the King take walks indoors?

Bista: Currently, the King engages in regular physical exercise every day, including half an hour of walking.

Chairman Mao: For now, let him proceed cautiously. Dizziness is particularly dangerous after a heart attack and can hinder recovery. Surgery should also be avoided unless absolutely necessary. There was a Vietnamese general who fared poorly after undergoing surgery. Fortunately, the King’s condition was only mild, not severe.

Bista: We assess it as a mild heart attack. However, the circumstances under which it occurred were inappropriate—the King was hunting from a tree at the time.

Chen Yi: They hunt tigers by climbing trees. Elephants are used to flush out the tigers, and then they are shot.

Chairman Mao: Isn’t that rather risky?

Bista: Only hunters enjoy it.

Premier Zhou: Were the trees very tall?

Bista: Very tall.

Lin Biao: An elephant can wrap its trunk around a tiger and crush it to death.

Bista: When a tiger charges at an elephant, the elephant retreats. But then another elephant rushes forward. Because the tiger is so ferocious, the elephants keep backing away. The tiger usually tries to grab the elephant’s trunk first, and the elephant immediately coils its trunk around the tiger.

Premier Zhou: Why can’t the elephant simply use its trunk to subdue the tiger?

Bista: The tiger is too powerful.

Kanal: Small tigers might be manageable, but not the larger ones.

Chairman Mao: Are there many elephants in your country?

Bista: Quite a few, along with tigers and other wildlife.

Chairman Mao: Could elephants be used as draft animals for plowing fields?

Bista: They could be, but raising elephants is very expensive, and they consume enormous amounts of food.

Chairman Mao: What do they eat?

Bista, Subba, and Kanal: Grass, bamboo leaves, grains, and other plant-based foods.

Chairman Mao: So they eat plants.

Premier Zhou: Yes, they don’t eat meat.

Bista: Nepal is also home to rhinoceroses.

Chairman Mao: Rhinos? Do rhinos eat grass?

Bista: Yes, though they sometimes damage crops.

Chairman Mao: Are they wild?

Bista: Wild.

Premier Zhou: Do they have fur?

Bista: No.

Lin Biao: Their horns are very valuable.

Bista: Extremely valuable.

Chairman Mao: They can even serve as weapons.

Thank you very much.

Bista: Thank you for this audience. We are deeply grateful that despite your busy schedule, you still made time to receive us.

Chairman Mao: Please convey my regards to the King upon your return.