(Not reviewed by the author)

(May 5, 1966)


Time: May 5, 1966, from 5:00 p.m. to 7:45 p.m.

Participants:

Albanian side: Shehu, Kapo, Kellezi, Nase

Chinese side: Zhou Enlai, Lin Biao, Deng Xiaoping, Wu Xiuquan

Interpreters: Fan Chengzuo, Xia Chengzhi

Recorders:

Chinese side: Xu Ruixin, Mu Zongyi

Albanian side: Fretto


Chairman Mao (hereinafter referred to as the Chairman): Welcome, Comrade Shehu and comrades of the delegation. How is Comrade Hoxha’s health?

Shehu (hereinafter referred to as Shehu): He is well. Thank you! Comrade Hoxha asked us to convey his greetings to Comrade Mao Zedong.

Chairman: Thank you!

Shehu: We are very pleased to see Comrade Mao Zedong. We are very glad to see that you are in good health.

Chairman: My health is not bad. But Marx is always about to summon me.

The development of things does not depend on human will. Marx and Engels did not foresee that the Social Democratic Party would usurp leadership. That is, it did not depend on the will of Marx and Engels. That party of his was revolutionary at first, but as soon as he died, it turned counter-revolutionary. The Soviet Union also did not depend on Lenin’s will; he did not foresee the emergence of Khrushchevite revisionism. However, he had two generations, including the generation of Stalin. Stalin basically carried on Lenin’s principles. Stalin never expected that as soon as he died, there would be a great backlash against Stalin, which was in fact also against Lenin, against Marx and Engels, and against people like us. Was it not against you in Albania? They bullied you, denied you grain, and said they could feed the grain to dogs.

Shehu: They said Albania could only survive for 15 days.

Kapo (hereinafter referred to as Kapo): Khrushchev was a “great prophet.”

Chairman: Khrushchev himself did not foresee that after ruling for 10 years, he would be driven out. So, things constantly move toward their opposites. It is not only quantitative change but also qualitative change; if there is only quantitative change without qualitative change, that is metaphysics. We are also prepared—who knows on which day revisionism will occupy Beijing? Now, those who support us might suddenly change and become revisionists. This is the first possibility.

The second possibility is partial differentiation. Chen Duxiu betrayed the revolution in 1927. In November of the same year, Qu Qiubai engaged in putschism and expelled me from the Political Bureau of the Central Committee. Word spread that I had been expelled from the Party, and I became a democratic personage. He did not last more than a few months.

Zhou Enlai (hereinafter referred to as Zhou): The putschism lasted for over four months.

Chairman: It collapsed after four months. I was reinstated in the Party. And later, I was even promoted—from an alternate member of the Political Bureau at the Sixth Congress to a full member. The third reign was that of Li Lisan, who is now in Beijing and still a member of the Central Committee. His time was even shorter.

Zhou: From June to August, three months.

Chairman: June, July, August. His method was to drive me out of the Red Army and transfer me to Shanghai. My method was not to go. I said I requested the Central Committee to cancel the transfer. At that time, we had tens of thousands in the Red Army. During the three and a half years of 1927, 1928, 1929, and 1930, when meetings were held, I had only one vote, and one vote was already a lot.

Shehu: If one is on the correct path, that is how it is.

Chairman: I did not listen to them. Some who had never met Li Lisan obeyed him. I said that I not only knew Li Lisan, not only had met him, but was very familiar with him. He had worked under me for a year.

Strangely enough, later I persuaded others, and from one person I became two, and from two persons I became one army corps. Then I persuaded another army corps, that of Peng Dehuai. The fourth reign was the Wang Ming line, which ruled for four long years.

Zhou: From January 1931 to January 1935.

Chairman: At that time, not a single ghost came to my door; if one ghost came to my door, it counted as my having the masses. I was called “utterly devoid of Marxism-Leninism,” while they themselves were 100 percent Marxist-Leninist. One had so much, the other had none at all, not a shred.

Shehu: According to their claims.

Chairman: To these comrades, I actually want to express my thanks. Of course, some were not comrades, such as Chen Duxiu and Qu Qiubai. Later, Chen Duxiu became a Trotskyite.

As a result, after the Zunyi Conference, this bodhisattva of mine, who had been squatting in a manure pit and stank, was somehow washed with water and became a bit fragrant again. During the Long March, we encountered Zhang Guotao. He had a Central Committee, and we had a Central Committee. This man is now in Hong Kong, working for the Americans. At that time, he was a member of the Political Bureau, the leader of the Fourth Front Army, the leader of a front army.

After the Long March of 12,500 kilometers, the 300,000-strong Red Army was reduced to 25,000. The quality of these 25,000 surpassed that of the 300,000, because everyone had learned lessons. 25,000 Chinese li is 12,500 kilometers, equal to the diameter of the Earth. Multiply 12,500 kilometers by pi (3.1416), and you get the circumference of the Earth’s surface. All of us traveled the Earth’s diameter of 12,500 kilometers, and by then we were relatively more experienced.

From Chen Duxiu’s betrayal and the failure of the revolution in 1927 to 1937, there were three “Left” deviationist lines in those 10 years, and the revolution suffered great setbacks again. Combining these two aspects, we gained experience and lessons. Later, during the eight years of the War of Resistance Against Japan, our forces grew from over 20,000 troops to 1.2 million, and the population in the base areas reached nearly 100 million. Afterward, the Japanese fled, and Chiang Kai-shek attacked us, but we spent only three and a half years driving him to Taiwan. In this way, China was basically unified, though it cannot yet be said to be completely unified. Within the Party, there were still Peng Dehuai and Wang Ming. Later, there were the cliques of Gao Gang and Rao Shushi that split away. They opposed us. Among those who split away, there were several members of the Central Committee, including two members of the Political Bureau. So, things constantly divide, constantly split into two. A monolithic iron plate? There is no such thing. Peng Dehuai committed many line errors, yet we still trusted Peng Dehuai and still used him. For example, in the Northwest, he commanded the field army that fought from Yan’an and Xi’an all the way to Xinjiang. For example, in the War to Resist U.S. Aggression and Aid Korea, we dispatched one million troops. At that time, Comrade Lin Biao was ill, and I made a mistake by not using Comrade Deng Xiaoping to command. He is someone who understands military affairs. Look, he is so small in stature, yet he commanded the attack on Nanjing. The attack on Nanjing involved two field armies, nearly one million troops. He fought in Shanghai, Zhejiang, Hangzhou (West Lake, which you will visit the day after tomorrow), Jiangxi, and Fujian. Then their Second Field Army went west to occupy Sichuan, Yunnan, and Guizhou. These three provinces have a population of nearly 100 million. The commander of the Kuomintang forces in Yunnan is still in Beijing now; his name is Lu Han. He now has three tasks: eating, defecating, and sleeping. There are quite a few such people (Kuomintang generals) being supported, dozens of them, with just three tasks: eating, defecating, and sleeping, and doing nothing else. They also study, but the more they study, the stupider they become. There is, however, one emperor (Puyi) who has studied relatively well. Unfortunately, he is now ill, suffering from a malignant tumor. You people always deal with people like us; why not take a look at them? The Kuomintang generals, the last emperor of China, the capitalists of Shanghai. You (pointing to Nase), as an ambassador, should study all aspects—workers, peasants, merchants, soldiers, students, counter-revolutionaries. If you only deal with one aspect and do not study the counter-revolutionary aspect, if you only send telegrams home reporting good news and not bad, that is also dangerous. Last December, we discovered that the Chief of the General Staff, Luo Ruiqing, was anti-Party, and now the issue of Peng Zhen opposing socialism has also arisen. Has that document not been translated yet?

Zhou: There is already a first draft.

Chairman: There are Central Committee documents for you to read, and some materials still need to be translated.

Zhou: They have already been given several of the materials on the socialist education movement.

Chairman: In light of China’s lessons, where there is revolution, there is counter-revolution; without counter-revolution, there would be no revolution. Where there is a Left, there is a Right; the Left is defined in relation to the Right. If the whole of China developed into a Left, would that be tolerable? Things are not like that; they always have two aspects. In the Soviet Union, they talked about the unity of workers, peasants, and intellectuals, or said that there were only contradictions with foreign imperialism and no contradictions at home. Just a few years after saying that, they ended up killing people on a large scale, and so many counter-revolutionaries emerged.

Zhou: After the proclamation of the 1936 Soviet Constitution.

Chairman: From 1936 to 1938, it was only a little over a year. So on this issue, Comrade Stalin did not understand Marxism-Leninism. In light of these circumstances, once people like us die, revisionism may arise. If China had no Stalin, it would not even have two generations, only one. Because people like us are all about the same age, or are ill, unlike you. You are still the morning sun, while we are in the twilight. So now, while we still have a breath left, we must rectify this bourgeois restoration.

Shehu: This issue is the same for you as it is for us; it does not depend on the question of age.

Chairman: That may be so.

Shehu: That is how we think.

Chairman: In short, we must keep two possibilities in mind:

The first possibility is a counter-revolutionary dictatorship, a counter-revolutionary restoration. If we put this as the first possibility, we become a bit anxious; otherwise, we would not be anxious and would think everything is peaceful and fine. If you are not anxious and think everything is peaceful and fine, is everything really fine? It is not like that at all. The bright side is now visible, but there is an even more important side, the dark side. They are doing underground work. Lenin said that the defeated exploiting classes remain stronger than the victorious proletariat for a long time. Lenin also said that the peasantry and the petty bourgeoisie engender capitalism every day, every hour. Who are the defeated classes? Imperialism, feudalism, and capitalism. And the masses are the workers, peasants, and urban petty bourgeoisie. We have also included China’s national bourgeoisie and their intellectuals. And the children of the landlord class. In the past, most of our university students were children of the bourgeoisie and the landlord class; workers, poor peasants, and lower-middle peasants could not afford to attend school, not even primary school. If they could attend primary school, they could not attend middle school, let alone university. The old intellectuals number at least several million. The cultural education of the masses is in their hands; we do not control it. With so many primary schools, we have no primary school teachers of our own and have to use the primary school teachers left by the Kuomintang. We also do not have our own middle school teachers, university professors, engineers, actors, painters, or personnel to run publishing houses and bookstores. Some of those old elements have infiltrated the Party, temporarily lying low and biding their time. Just like Khrushchev lying low and biding his time; just like Bernstein, Kautsky, and others lying low and biding their time. In my view, it would be fine if China became a revisionist fascist state—it would be moving toward its opposite. Then you would come and oppose it. But the Chinese people, the workers, peasants, and revolutionary intellectuals, will also lie low and bide their time, and one day they will eventually overthrow the revisionist fascist counter-revolution. This is speaking of the first possibility.

The second possibility is the policy of peeling a bamboo shoot, stripping away layer by layer, leaving the good and discarding the bad. From 1921 to 1966, over 45 years, we have initially peeled away one layer, stripping away quite a few reactionaries: Chen Duxiu, Qu Qiubai, Li Lisan, Wang Ming, Zhang Guotao, Zhang Wentian, Gao Gang, Rao Shushi, Peng Dehuai, Luo Ruiqing, Peng Zhen, and so on, altogether dozens of Central Committee members, plus those lying beside us who have not yet been discovered. As for Party members who betrayed, they number in the thousands and tens of thousands. When sick, one can take “mycin.” This year, I have only been sick twice: once in January for a month, and the second time in April for a month. But I have not died yet. Recently, I took 74 tablets of “mycin.” Test results showed streptococcus in my trachea; two tests (one in Shanghai, one in Hangzhou) both gave the same result. This kind of bacteria is revisionism and counter-revolution. And after taking 74 tablets of “mycin,” wasn’t it eliminated? But when I was sick, I could still eat and sleep. That was a localized illness. Do you never get sick at all? Have you never been ill in your entire lives?

Shehu: We have also been sick. We have been sick and are still sick now.

Kapo: We often need treatment.

Chairman: To govern, to govern counterrevolutionaries, to govern Khrushchev, to govern Peng Zhen, to govern Luo Ruiqing. Luo Ruiqing was his (pointing to Lin Biao) subordinate; he is the Minister of National Defense and presides over the Military Commission. I am the Chairman of the Military Commission, and he is the First Vice Chairman. From 1961 to 1965, he struggled with Luo Ruiqing for five years, also taking "toxins," but it couldn't be cured. By December of last year, the "toxins" took effect. Luo Ruiqing jumped off a building attempting suicide, but he didn't want to go headfirst. Wouldn't it have been better if he went headfirst? He didn't; he went feet first. As a result, his feet were ruined. We must deal with these counterrevolutionaries (inside and outside the Party). We now need to deal with those in the Party, in the government, and in the military. Luo Ruiqing is from the military, Peng Dehuai is from the military. There are many in the government, though they do not hold dominant positions. So, there is great hope; don't be pessimistic. The first possibility should not be ruled out either. The people of the whole world (including those in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, and Western Europe) will always want revolution. In the future, all revisionism, social democracy, and capitalists will inevitably perish.

Who is called Nasser? Is it you (pointing to Nasser)? You, Nasser, will also perish, colluding with the Americans. I am talking about that Nasser of the United Arab Republic.

Xie: His name is missing one letter at the end; otherwise, it would be just like Nasser.

Chairman: Nasser is just a little short of that.

Xie: That little bit is the dividing line—one is revolutionary, the other counterrevolutionary.

Chairman: You (pointing to Nasser) are revolutionary, I am clear about that. Don't believe that counterrevolutionaries are so formidable. Before the 1911 Revolution, China was under the Qing Dynasty. After the 1911 Revolution, there was Yuan Shikai, the Northern Warlords, warlords in various provinces, and then Chiang Kai-shek's rule. Because they had no mass base, they all failed. As long as we do not detach ourselves from the masses, counterrevolutionaries won't be able to stir up trouble, and even if they do, it won't matter. Khrushchev muddled along for ten years—didn't he fall? He expelled Albania and then opposed China. Fine, but in the end, he opposed himself right out of power. Khrushchev opposed himself out of power. Now, Khrushchev's successors will also oppose themselves out of power. They say we are isolated; they have over sixty parties issuing statements denouncing us. We are not few either; we have dozens of Marxist-Leninist groups (some are groups, some are individuals). We are the majority—the suffering people of the world, those who cannot eat their fill, are the majority.

How about it? You can speak up, practice democracy, not dictatorship.

Xie: Comrade Mao Zedong's views, your thoughts, have greatly educated us. They are a great school for us, a great school for our Party. When you speak with us, it is as if we are seeing a glorious Party history reflecting an entire stage of China. The struggle between two worlds and two ideologies.

Chairman: Two classes.

Xie: Correct. Your Party's history is longer than our Party's history, and in terms of both quantity and quality, it is greater than our Party's history.

Chairman: Not necessarily.

Xie: The internal struggle of things—in our country, too, there has emerged a struggle between two ideologies, a struggle between two hostile classes, and a struggle between two worlds.

Chairman: Didn't a woman from your country come to China? What was her name?

Zhou: Belishova.

Xie: She is a traitor. After she spoke with Comrade Liu Shaoqi, she went to the Soviet Embassy and reported everything to Chervonenko. When Comrade Hoxha learned of this, he wrote a telegram to Nasser (Nasser was then ambassador to the Soviet Union), instructing him to quickly forward the telegram to this woman (who was in Mongolia). The telegram contained only two lines: "The matter is important; do not speak of it to the Soviets." Our ambassador left Moscow, went to Mongolia, found this woman Belishova, and delivered the letter to her. But no one else knew. After she spoke here with Comrade Liu Shaoqi, she went to the Soviet Embassy and reported everything to Chervonenko. The next day, at a mass rally in Ulaanbaatar, she spoke in violation of our Party Central Committee's line, effectively responding to Comrade Hoxha's instructions. She said that without the Soviet Union, Albania could not survive for 24 hours. This was published in bold type in the Soviet newspapers Pravda and Izvestia. As soon as she arrived in Moscow, she handed Comrade Hoxha's letter of instruction to Brezhnev and Kozlov. Now this person has been expelled from the Party.

Chairman: Is this person still around?

Xie: Still alive.

Chairman: This method is good—kill fewer people.

Xie: We don't kill people now; we did in the past.

Chairman: Give her four major tasks: eating, defecating, sleeping, and reform through labor.

Xie: The first three have been carried out—eating, defecating, sleeping—but she has not yet been made to labor.

Chairman: Three major tasks.

Xie: Her husband was formerly a Central Committee member and Minister of Agriculture; he has also been expelled from the Party.

Ka: Exposing her did no harm; on the contrary, it strengthened our Party.

Chairman: Correct. Having one or a few negative teachers is very beneficial for your Party.

Xie: Correct. As for negative teachers, Tito "taught" us, Khrushchev "taught" us, and the traitors within our country "taught" us.

Ka: From 1948 to the present, some of these traitors even wormed their way into the Party Central Committee and the Politburo.

Chairman: They exist at the grassroots level too. In our country, some Party branch secretaries are incredibly arrogant—they act like overlords. The landlord class can buy off a Party branch secretary with two packs of cigarettes or a pound of pork.

Xie: Absolutely correct. In our country, there are similar situations—using infiltration into the Party to exert influence on us. That is to say, class struggle continues. Therefore, we say that Comrade Mao Zedong's teachings are very important—not only of practical significance for the Chinese Party but also for the Albanian Party, for all parties in the world that want to carry out revolution and safeguard it, and for the entire international communist movement.

Chairman: The teachings of Marx, the teachings of Lenin, the teachings of Stalin. In particular, Lenin spoke of two points: the overthrown classes remain stronger than the proletariat for a long time; the peasantry and petty bourgeoisie generate capitalism daily and hourly. Now we don't use this phrase much; I think we should use it more.

Zhou: This phrase appears in the "Nine Commentaries."

Chairman: One article is not enough; we must speak of it often. This is the truth. The overthrown classes remain stronger than the proletariat for a long time; the petty bourgeoisie (mainly the peasantry) generates capitalism daily and hourly.

Zhou: And revolutionary elements degenerate and change in nature.

Chairman: In the first half of his life, Kautsky was very revolutionary. I have read his books—wasn't he a revolutionary then? Later, he became a counterrevolutionary. Plekhanov was also revolutionary in the first half of his life; in the second half, didn't he turn into a White (Menshevik)? The Whites are the bourgeoisie. At that time, Lenin did not pay attention to rural investigations and even lacked a program for agrarian reform, so he had to use the Socialist Revolutionary Party's program as the Bolshevik program. At that time, they still united with those who could be united, uniting with the "Narodniks." Lenin also united with Kautsky for a long time, until Kautsky voted in support of the "German Emperor's declaration of war," and then he broke with him. Isn't there a book about this?

Zhou: "The Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky."

Chairman: That's the book—"The Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky." Some of our veteran cadres only talk about salaries, only talk about going home to rest on Saturdays. Their spirits are listless and lethargic; they don't want revolution. There are still quite a few such people. These people also have three major tasks. If they don't want revolution, what can you do? For some, we just have to give them food. If you try to struggle with them, they act shamelessly. There is a portion of people who no longer engage in revolution. They say that even if they have no merit, they have toiled; they did revolutionary work before—who dares touch them?

Xie: They boast about their past, exploit their past.

Chairman: You can't exactly call them counterrevolutionaries either.

Zhou: Their revolutionary will has declined.

Chairman: Their revolutionary will has declined. If you call them revisionists, they won't admit it; they don't even have a program.

Now our universities must be reformed; students shouldn't study for so many years. Military schools—fighting wars is the military school. None of our current military region commanders have attended any military school. For example, our Minister of National Defense—he did attend a military school, for nine months, right?

Lin Biao (hereinafter referred to as Lin): Including the three months as a recruit.

Chairman: Three months as a recruit, six months of military academy training. He was a student of Chiang Kai-shek. Luo Ruiqing was also a student of Chiang Kai-shek. These two people, representing two classes, ended up in struggle. Most of our officers—the current regimental commanders, division commanders, army commanders, military region commanders, service commanders, and branch commanders—were mostly illiterate in the past, with a few knowing a handful of characters. Our Comrade Lin Biao attended primary school, then three years of middle school, and then six months of military school—a student of Chiang Kai-shek, truly remarkable! As for people like us, none of us attended university.

Broadly speaking, there aren't many university graduates in our Central Committee. Lu Dingyi is one.

Zhou: There are a few. Jiang Nanxiang, Li Chang, and so on.

Chairman: Jiang Nanxiang is the Minister of Higher Education; this person is still fine now. The Propaganda Minister Lu Dingyi has gone bad.

Zhou: We haven't told them yet.

Chairman: You haven't told them yet—keep it secret.

Zhou: Haven't told them yet.

Chairman: Now he is called to Beijing to attend meetings with Peng Zhen, meetings on the Cultural Revolution. He is no longer allowed to serve as Propaganda Minister. He is an alternate member of the Politburo, also a Vice Premier, and also a secretary of the Secretariat. He is also given three major tasks. Peng Zhen is also given three major tasks, and Luo Ruiqing is also given three major tasks.

Marxism-Leninism alone cannot educate us; there is another teacher—the counterrevolutionaries. People like us only know a few phrases of Marxism-Leninism; that's not enough. Chiang Kai-shek killed people, the Japanese killed people, the Americans killed people—they killed us until we had no way out. I was originally a primary school teacher; later, after joining the Communist Party, I didn't prepare to fight wars. I read a bit of Marxism and Leninism. I was used to working in the cities. I never thought I would go to war myself. All of us were like that—only he (pointing to Lin Biao) studied warfare.

Lin: I also joined during the "May Thirtieth Movement," when the Northern Warlords were suppressing the revolution.

Chairman: What year did you enter Whampoa?

Lin: Winter of 1925.

Chairman: He (pointing to Lin Biao) was a student of Chiang Kai-shek; he (pointing to Premier Zhou) was Chiang Kai-shek's Director of the Political Department and Party Representative.

Zhou: I was Director of the Political Department and acting Party Representative.

Chairman: Chiang Kai-shek was the Army Commander, and Wang Jingwei was the Party Representative, but he never assumed the post. He (pointing to Premier Zhou) acted on behalf of Wang Jingwei. Later, Wang Jingwei collaborated with the Japanese in Nanjing as a traitor, becoming the head of the puppet government in Nanjing. During the first period of KMT-CPC cooperation, Wang Jingwei was the Propaganda Minister, and I was the Deputy Minister acting as Minister. I also served as Hu Hanmin's secretary—he was a big counterrevolutionary. So, don't think I'm so extraordinary.

Xie: You lived among venomous snakes.

Chairman: So, counterrevolutionaries are nothing extraordinary. Sometimes, with just a little push like this (the Chairman made a light tapping gesture), they fall. Sometimes, you need to strike like this (the Chairman made a heavy striking gesture) for them to fall. In short, if you don't push them, they won't fall. It's like sweeping a house—if the broom doesn't reach, the dust, as a rule, won't run away. Why would it run? The broom hasn't come. It's like dust on your face—if you don't wash your face, it, as a rule, won't run away. Now many people use soap; I've never used soap in my life. But I do wash my face. Dust clings to our faces, and counterrevolutionaries cling to our faces.

Xie: That is a vivid way of putting it.

Chairman: Correct. Don't be afraid of counterrevolutionaries. Sometimes I feel worried too—it would be a lie to say I'm never worried or anxious. But after sleeping and waking up, I gather a few comrades for a meeting, discuss things, and then we come up with solutions. I've had many such experiences: worrying all night with no solution, then after sleeping and waking up with a clear mind, discussing and talking with comrades, we find a way and feel very happy again. This was during the time of fighting wars. It was Chiang Kai-shek and the imperialists who helped push us into war—it was not up to my will, nor the will of any of us here. I never dreamed of going to war. Yet once the fighting started, it lasted 22 years. People say I'm a man of letters, but I say no, I am a military man. Because Chiang Kai-shek taught me to fight, the Japanese taught me to fight, the Americans taught me to fight; they taught our whole Party to fight. The fighting went on for over twenty years—if you include the War to Resist U.S. Aggression and Aid Korea, it's 25 years. So I am not a man of letters; I am a military man. The revisionists and imperialists call me a warmonger—that's absolutely correct. They say people like us fear nothing more than peace under heaven—indeed. The more chaos, the better; the imperialists are educating the people all over the world.

Let's eat.

Shehu: Comrade Mao Zedong, you decide, as you please.

Chairman: I invite you to eat. People must eat—this is the first truth.


(The following is a record of conversations during the meal)

Chairman: We have a historian named Fan Wenlan. He is someone who opposes us politically and academically.

Shehu: We are very happy to see that Comrade Mao Zedong is in such good health.

Chairman: Not good.

Shehu: We think you look very well.

Chairman: Formalism.

Deng Xiaoping (hereafter Deng): Recently the imperialists and Taiwan have been spreading rumors, saying Chairman Mao is ill.

Chairman: Saying I'm about to die.

Zhou: Mainly because we haven't received guests in recent months.

Kapo: A month ago, in Albania, we also received a foreign news report saying Comrade Mao Zedong was seriously ill.

Shehu: Once the news of Comrade Mao Zedong receiving us today is published, the rumors will be dispelled.

Chairman: Even without publishing it, the rumors can be dispelled—as long as I can still eat.

Shehu: What's important is that Comrade Mao Zedong stays in good health and enjoys a long life.

Chairman: A three-year plan. (Stands up to propose a toast) Unite to defeat imperialism, modern revisionism, and the reactionaries of all countries—including your Belishova, our Peng Zhen, and the like. Long live Comrade Hoxha!

Shehu: May your life be as long as the Southern Mountain.

Chairman: Have you read American history?

Shehu: Some, but not systematically.

Chairman: In 1775, when Washington rose up to fight the British, there were only over three million people. By 1860, there were still only over five million. But Britain at that time was enormous—besides its own territory, it had a great country like India, and colonies like Canada and Australia.

Shehu: All the colonies.

Chairman: So, the small defeating the big is a law of history. Those without guns defeating those with guns—that's how the October Revolution happened. At the time of the October Revolution, the Bolsheviks had only 80,000 Party members. What to do without guns? They had to seize them from the enemy.

Is your nation relatively close to the Turks?

Shehu: The Turks ruled us for about 500 years, until 1912.

Zhou: 1912. Liberation came only in the early 20th century.

Chairman: Napoleon reached Moscow in 1812.

Shehu: Yes, exactly 100 years after the French entered Moscow, in 1912, Albania became independent. In the mid-15th century, our national hero Skanderbeg fought the Turks for 25 years and defeated them. Later, when this national hero died, the Turks ruled Albania.

Kapo: After Skanderbeg died, 700,000 Albanians migrated to Italy. That ethnic community still exists in Italy today.

Shehu: When Albania's borders were determined in 1913, another one million people were placed under Yugoslavia.

Chairman: Macedonia?

Shehu: Macedonia too. Mainly in the region of Montenegro (Black Mountain).

In the whole world, the Albanian nation numbers three million. But we see it this way: together with the Chinese people, we have a population of 702 million.

Comrade Mao Zedong, please allow me to raise my glass. (Stands up to propose a toast) Comrade Mao Zedong proposed a toast, very emphatically pointing out the unity between our two Parties and two peoples. Entrusted by our Party, our people, and Comrade Hoxha himself, we assure Comrade Mao Zedong and the Chinese Party that we will certainly stand together with you in persistent struggle until complete victory—the word "complete" written in bold. In the four struggles—against imperialism, against revisionism, against the reactionaries of all countries, and for building socialism—we stand with you. Our greatest wish is for Comrade Mao Zedong's long life. Even if we could give you our own years, we would. Perhaps you'll say I'm being idealistic.

May Comrade Mao Zedong live ten thousand years without limit.

Chairman: To you! Comrade Hoxha, Comrade Shehu.

China has too many people, nothing to eat. Khrushchev said we drink clear soup from a big pot, five people sharing one pair of pants.

Shehu: He slandered us as agents of imperialism.

Kapo: They are now accepting loans from capitalist countries. Gromyko and the Soviet Deputy Minister of Foreign Trade went to Italy to make deals, to set up automobile companies.

Chairman: (Chairman takes off his jacket) You are polite; I am not. What's the point of such politeness?

Shehu: We're not hot; it's not about politeness.

He (referring to Nase) is in diplomacy. He taught us to be polite; he wields the baton in matters of politeness. Khrushchev taught him; he cooperated with Khrushchev and served as ambassador to the Soviet Union.

Chairman: Was he the one driven out by Khrushchev?

Shehu: Said he was persona non grata.

Chairman: A toast to you (referring to Nase), because you were driven out by Khrushchev.

Shehu: Comrade Mao Zedong, the exceptionally grand welcome you've given us this time has deeply moved us.

Chairman: It's all done for the imperialists and revisionists to see—to show that the Chinese people welcome you, to demonstrate to them.

Shehu: We, the Albanian people, and the Albanian Party of Labor led by Comrade Hoxha, will not fail to live up to the sentiments you have shown us each time, especially the warm welcome you have given us this time.

Chairman: We are students of Marxism-Leninism, opposing those who betray Marxism-Leninism.

We are now supplying pork to the revisionists, in exchange for their timber.

Kapo: The Mongolians can no longer supply them with meat.

Shehu: Especially after Brezhnev signed the treaty with Mongolia, Brezhnev wants to move troops into Mongolia and eat Mongolian meat.

Chairman: How many troops have been sent, I wonder?

Zhou: About two divisions.

Chairman: We are prepared for them to fight their way to Beijing. Xinjiang, the Northeast, the Northwest—everything north of the Yellow River to the Soviet Union, south of the Yellow River to the United States. The two countries carve up China.

Can't do without cigarettes. Cigarettes are also a kind of food. None of you want any?

Shehu: I smoked continuously until the 1960 Bucharest Conference. After the Bucharest Conference, I quit. The doctor said I should stop smoking.

Chairman: Going to the opposite extreme. My doctor is him (pointing to the doctor). He doesn't object; he smokes even more than I do. (Laughs)

Zhou: Many doctors tell others not to smoke, but indoors they smoke even more fiercely than others. They tell others to be hygienic, but they themselves are not hygienic. They talk so fiercely about hygiene, but it's not scientific.

Chairman: Don't be superstitious about doctors. I've made a pact with my doctor: if I don't have a fever, leave me alone. I listen to at most 50% of what he says.

Shehu: Only 50%?

Chairman: Not even that—one-third. I listen to myself.

Kapo: Is this a secret? Do people outside not know?

Chairman: I often talk about it.

Zhou: One knows oneself better than a doctor does. Doctors have a lot of subjectivism.

Chairman: Doctors themselves say there's nothing to it—don't be superstitious about doctors, because they aren't superstitious about themselves. Some people specialize in scaring others.

Shehu: Comrade Mao Zedong, how many cigarettes do you smoke a day?

Chairman: On average, 21 a day.

Shehu: Comrade Hoxha smokes twice as much as you. What he smokes is the Zhonghua brand. Since he visited China in 1956, for ten years now, he has smoked Chinese cigarettes.

Chairman: Then I have a good friend.

Shehu: He also regards you as his friend; he sees you as his great teacher. We have no contradictions whatsoever with Comrade Hoxha, except on this one point. We tell him not to smoke, but he smokes anyway. He says, if you can persuade Comrade Mao Zedong to quit smoking, I will quit. And with that, we are disarmed.

Chairman: He follows Marx; you follow Lenin.

We share some views, for instance, on the Soviet revisionists' 23rd Congress—haven't we exchanged opinions?

Shehu: Completely in agreement. Not only on the issue of the 23rd Congress, but on all issues we are completely in agreement.

Chairman: Not necessarily, right? On smoking, we are not in agreement. (Laughs)

Shehu: This is a contradiction among the people.

Kapo: It doesn't hinder the revolution.

Chairman: You could say that.

Zhou: On the opinions regarding semi-revisionism, we are also in agreement.

Shehu: Yesterday we received a notice from home saying Czechoslovakia invited us to attend their Party congress. Our comrades didn't even accept the invitation letter—they sent it back.

Chairman: That's good.

Deng: After the 23rd Congress, there will probably be a series of congresses.

Shehu: After the CPSU's 23rd Congress, Germany, Bulgaria, Poland, Czechoslovakia—all these Parties held special Central Committee plenums to discuss and implement the CPSU's 23rd Congress. Complete lackeys.

Chairman: Not necessarily completely in agreement, right?

Shehu: Yes, they have contradictions.

Chairman: One controls, the other resists control.

Deng: Recently Castro has been throwing tantrums again, saying one country cannot build communism, you can't just look after yourself, you must give me more things.

Kapo: One thing is certain: within these Eastern European Parties, especially in Poland and Bulgaria, there are leftists. Not long ago, an underground Party was established in Poland. There are many good communists in Bulgaria, but they haven't been organized. The leader of the Polish Party is now in Albania.

Deng: He was formerly Bierut's assistant.

Chairman: In your country today?

Deng: He left secretly; he is engaged in underground activities.

Kapo: He expressed a desire to maintain contact with your Party. According to our understanding, he himself and some other comrades are good comrades.

Chairman: Good, we should maintain contact.

Kapo: We will do everything we can to help them.

Chairman: However, they must be more cautious.

Kapo: Regarding the materials on Party building, on February 15th, within 24 hours, they were dispersed all across the country. Comrade Mijal told us they are organized and can send out materials in time. Within Poland, everyone knows him personally, so he needed to leave immediately. He has a mark on his head; he was once a member of the Party Central Committee. During Bierut's time, he was Minister of Transportation, fought in the guerrilla war, and many people know him.

Shehu: The Polish comrades have one advantage: they have experience in underground work. During the Second World War, they operated underground for a long time. Mijal and the comrades with him are all experienced.

Chairman: One Bierut, one Gottwald—both seem to have died in the Soviet Union.

Kapo: Both died suddenly; this is a question mark.

Zhou: One died just after Stalin died, the other just after the 20th Congress. Gottwald had gone to offer condolences; we were still together, and as soon as he returned, it was announced he died of illness.

Shehu: The same with Foster, the Chairman of the Communist Party USA.

Zhou: The same with Togliatti and Thorez. I think it might not be that day, but Ulbricht is also in danger—you'll see.

Shehu: I was talking about people like Ulbricht. Ulbricht cannot compare to Gottwald.

Zhou: He is a revisionist, and Togliatti is also a revisionist. He doesn’t want people like that; he wants new leadership, wants to change horses. Doesn’t the United States also change horses? How many horses have been changed in South Vietnam?

Chairman: The United States changes its own as well.

Xie: Wasn’t Kennedy also changed?

Deng: We can end it here.

Chairman: He’s giving orders—don’t talk any further. What can you do about it? He’s the General Secretary. All right!


(End of excerpt)