Chairman: Have you come from Guinea?

Gounday Sédu: (Guinean Minister of Education) Yes. Some of us have been here for ten days. We are two delegations sent by the Guinean government and party to engage with our Chinese friends. Since our arrival, we have learned a great deal. We know that imperialism is doing everything it can to isolate China. China is a major power, but the great Chinese people cannot be isolated. We regard China’s victories as our own, and we are determined to strengthen our friendly, even fraternal, relations with China.

Chairman: We are both friendly nations. With your support, we have nothing to fear. Africa has a population of over 200 million, and at least ninety percent or more of its people oppose imperialism. Our two countries are moving in the same direction. Is this your first visit to China? Fadiala: (Guinean Attorney General) I have been here once before and enjoyed China’s hospitable reception.

Chairman: You’ve been here once already!

Fadiala: I came in 1960 as part of a delegation of legal professionals from Asia, Africa, and Latin America. It was a great pleasure and honor to visit China then; I was received by the Chairman, and I still keep the photograph taken during that meeting. It remains a cherished memento. Chairman: Did you come with the President?

Fadiala: I joined the delegation of Asian, African, and Latin American legal professionals a few days after the President concluded his state visit and departed from China. Later, I also attended the Sofia International Conference of Legal Professionals together with Comrade Han Yutong and her husband. My visit to China in 1960 left a profound impression. During the years 1960 to 1965, China experienced what was called the Great Leap Forward. Chairman: Not exactly a leap forward—more like small steps forward.

Fadiala: Still, it was a significant leap forward.

Chairman: (Turning to Gounday Sédu and Fadiala) Who arrived first—did you go ahead, or did he? Fadiala: Minister Gounday Sédu arrived first. Last time, I stayed in China for a month and was scheduled to leave for Sofia on the thirteenth. This time, I plan to spend another month here, with an excursion to other parts of the country on the thirteenth, to deepen my understanding of China. Chairman: It’s good to travel around. Fadiala: Thank you. I have already told my colleagues how grateful I am to the Chinese people, the Chinese government, and the Chairman for this invitation.

Chairman: We extend invitations to all who wish to come. However, you should bear in mind that China’s experience is not entirely positive; some aspects are good, while others are less so. Fadiala: The Chairman is very modest. Chairman: It’s not modesty—it’s simply the reality. There is no place, no country in the world, that has only strengths and no weaknesses. No one is without fault; perhaps only God is infallible, though none of us has ever seen Him. All our work, including education, is undergoing a process of transformation. In the past, we had no university professors, secondary-school teachers, or primary-school instructors. We absorbed everyone left over from the Nationalist regime and gradually reformed them. Some were successfully transformed, while others remained unchanged. When you tried to reform them, they would not listen. The same applies to the courts and the procuratorate. To this day, we have yet to enact civil, criminal, and procedural codes. (The Chairman asks Comrade Han Yutong, “Are they being drafted now?” She replies, “They are currently being worked on.”) It will probably take another fifteen years. Fadiala: In my view, regulations are not the most important thing; what matters is the spirit. Once you have the right spirit, solutions will follow. Regulations merely formalize what has already been accomplished; they are secondary. Chairman: That’s a very sound point. We are already carrying out certain tasks—for example, reforming counterrevolutionaries and convicts. We have decades of experience, not just fifteen years; even in the revolutionary base areas there were precedents. Fadiala: On this subject, in 1960 I discussed the issue with China’s Chief Procurator and the president of the Association of Political and Legal Scholars. China attaches great importance to the rehabilitation of war criminals. We in Guinea face a similar situation. Turning war criminals into useful members of society requires mobilizing the people and integrating the judicial organs with the general public. The challenges confronting our two countries are essentially the same. Of course, your efforts have achieved remarkable success, whereas we are still in the experimental stage. You have made tremendous achievements both in research and in practical work—for instance, transforming the last emperor into a citizen who now contributes to the cause of the people. Mr. Chairman, your confidence in the people and your belief that human beings can be reformed are entirely justified. Although the social conditions in our two countries differ, our goals are the same. Chairman: (Turning to Gounday Sédu) You are in education. Even those who have committed crimes need education. After all, animals can be trained too! Cattle can be taught to plow fields, horses can be trained for farming and warfare. Why then should humans be denied the opportunity to improve themselves? The key lies in our guiding principles and policies, as well as in our methods. Do we adopt an educational approach, or do we simply discard them? Do we help them, or do we suppress them? If we resort to suppression and oppression, they would rather die. But if we take a supportive approach, proceeding slowly and patiently—over a year, two years, ten years, eight years—the vast majority can indeed make progress. Gounday Sédu: That is absolutely correct. Chairman: We must believe in this possibility. If some remain unconvinced, we can conduct pilot projects. (The Chairman says to Comrade Han Yutong, “In the future, these principles should be codified—both in the civil code and the criminal code.”) We should treat offenders as human beings, holding out hope for them and offering assistance, while also providing constructive criticism. For example, in labor-reform factories and farms, production should not be the primary goal; political re-education must take precedence. By focusing on nurturing the human spirit and stimulating their initiative, these institutions can operate much more effectively. Not only can the inmates become self-sufficient, but they can even send money home. At present, our labor-reform system still has shortcomings, mainly due to weak management personnel and inconsistent policy guidance in some areas. Fadiala: I believe the staff are quite capable. This work does not yield immediate results, but the achievements already attained are highly encouraging. After all, it is easier to change an institution than to transform people’s minds. Chairman: The crux of the matter does not lie with the prisoners, but with us. Some of our officials fail to prioritize the reform of individuals over mere labor and production. They seem more concerned with profiting from the prisoners’ work. Fadiala: I agree. We face the same problem: any endeavor will only succeed if we first educate our cadres. Chairman: When it comes to education, the quality of the leadership is crucial. Whether a school thrives depends largely on the principal and the Party committee—who they are and what their political level is. Gounday Sédu: That is entirely correct. Chairman: School principals and teachers exist to serve the students, not the other way around. Similarly, our courts and procuratorates are meant to serve the accused, not to cater to the interests of powerful figures. Gounday Sédu: That is accurate, and we fully concur. Chairman: Ultimately, our government exists to serve the people. The people provide us with food; if we do not use that sustenance to serve the people, then what is the point? Ambassador, when did you arrive?

Kamara Mamadi: I came in 1963 and have been here for two and a half years. Less than a month after my arrival, I accompanied a delegation to Shanghai, where I was received by the Chairman. Chairman: (smiling) You’re wearing white this time—I almost didn’t recognize you! Kamara Mamadi: That’s right. Last time in Shanghai, I was dressed entirely in black. Chairman: Shall we conclude our discussion here? I don’t have much else to add. Upon your return, please convey my greetings to your leader, President Touré.