One does not visit the Temple of the Three Treasures without a reason; when there is a matter, meetings are convened. Some comrades ask, how does one fight a war of annihilation? In a county of 280,000 people, they concentrated 18,000 individuals, worked for two months without making a breakthrough, and spent forty days just studying documents—why study for so many days? I think this is scholasticism. I do not advocate that kind of study. Just reading is useless. (Liu XX: In Henan, tens of thousands of people were concentrated in a few places, worked for over forty days, which was to combat Right-leaning tendencies and clarify certain issues.) (Liu Zihou: Our concentration was also to combat Right-leaning tendencies and unload burdens.) Have there been any achievements? The documents can be read in one day, then discuss the next day, discuss for a week, and then go down. The main thing is to study in the countryside, to learn from the poor and lower-middle peasants. One of my guards, twenty-one years old, wrote to say: "After studying the documents for forty days, I didn't understand a thing. Only after going down this time did I learn something." Just study the documents for a week, then go into the villages and learn from the poor and lower-middle peasants. He said there are still several fears—fear of dead people, fear of establishing roots in the wrong places, fear of this and that. With so many fears, it won't work. A county of 280,000 people has 1,800 cadres, and they say that's too few. Needing so many people, I think it's too many. The work teams have so many people, and you rely on the work teams—why not rely on the 280,000 people of the county? Rely on the good people there? If one out of twenty-eight is bad, there are still twenty-seven who are good. If two are bad, there are still twenty-six who are good. Why not rely on these people? With ten thousand or twenty thousand people working for one or two months, they still can't get things going. Rooting and linking up, what rooting and linking up? It's cold and cheerless. They just aren't relying properly. If they relied properly, a dozen or so people would be enough for a county. In short, that's not how we carried out the revolution in the past. Ten thousand or twenty thousand people tackling one or two small counties—pouring down like a rainstorm—still can't get things going for months. Before, when organizing the trade union at the Anyuan Coal Mine... we didn't know a single one of the Anyuan workers. We went and openly said: Who is willing to attend the night school? At first, we found a foreman. He had two wives. Did we set up a club? (XXX: We didn't.) After three months, we launched a strike.

I think after entering a village and meeting the masses, just come straight to the point and announce a few items:

1. Announce to the commune members that we have not come to rectify you. Can we also announce to the honest landlords and rich peasants that we are not here to rectify them, except for a portion of those landlords and rich peasants whose status was missed in classification, a portion of counterrevolutionaries with serious problems, and speculators? Petty thefts are all pardoned. Come straight to the point and say that we are rectifying the inside of our Party, not rectifying commune members. Announce that our intention in coming is not to rectify you. If you yourselves have done something wrong, go talk about it yourselves; we won't listen. Very few extremely serious cases among commune members can be discussed as well; these are a tiny minority.

2. To the cadres, also announce the purpose of our visit. Cadres at the team, brigade, and commune levels are, at most, large, medium, small, or none. There are those who have grabbed and taken more than their share, those who have taken very little, and those who have taken nothing at all—cases involving a few dozen yuan, or within one or two hundred yuan. You speak up yourselves. If you can return it, do so; if you cannot, with the masses' approval, drop it—that's all there is to it! If you speak up, the matter is finished; if you don't, there will be some trouble.

For those guilty of embezzlement, theft, and speculation, if they make restitution well, they need not wear labels; those who perform well and have the masses' consent can continue serving as cadres.

I think within about a month after entering the village, a big meeting should be held, convened at the county level. From each small team, one team leader and two poor and lower-middle peasants should come; from each brigade, the Party branch secretary and brigade leader; from each commune, the Party secretary and head. Hold several sessions, one day at a time. First, state the purpose of the visit; the speech should not be long—half an hour at most. If it's an hour, nobody will want to listen. Let them go down and convey it. A county of 280,000 people has over 3,000 small teams. Three people per production team amounts to around 10,000 people. If it can't be done in one session, divide it into two or three sessions, one day per session. Hold a ten-thousand-person meeting, and the people will be pacified. With this cold, cheerless approach, deploying so many work teams, unable to make headway for months, and with the majority being people without experience or competence, it fails. In Tong County, over 20,000 people have been sent and worked for over a year without making headway. There are those who cannot work, those who act as officials. I think carrying out revolution this way will take a hundred years. Among the work teams, some professors have gone down; they are worse than assistant instructors, and assistant instructors are worse than students. The more one reads, the more foolish one becomes, understanding nothing. That is the only matter; besides that, there's nothing.

Fighting a war of annihilation this way, I think the enemy won't be annihilated. We must rely on the masses, rouse them. Rooting and linking up is cold and cheerless. This atmosphere is far too weak. This method is totally different from our past approach. To annihilate the enemy in a few months, I think the methods must change. Without relying on the masses, it won't get done in months. Think of a way!

You (referring to Liu Zihou), Zhang Chengxian, and Prefectural Party Secretary Li Yuenong, leading teams, haven't got things going for months. Think of a way! Why can't it get going? (Liu: It slowed down because of the emphasis on rooting and linking up. When I was in Ren County, I combined large meetings with small ones.) Cadre meetings and poor and lower-middle peasant meetings can be held at the brigade or can go to the county seat. Last year, Hunan Province held a provincial representative assembly of poor and lower-middle peasants, and the results were quite good; this year, grain output increased by 2 billion jin. I think it played a role. So much fear—fear of rooting in the wrong place—you've become trapped in that thinking. When entering the village, a large meeting must be held. The poor and lower-middle peasants, including landlords and rich peasants with missed classifications, should all come. Announce a few items; the "Double Ten Articles" shouldn't be read out point by point.

True leaders, good people, can only be discerned through struggle. Relying solely on visiting the poor and asking about their hardships won't reveal them. I don't believe in visiting the poor and asking about their hardships. They are neither relatives nor friends. When organizing a strike on the Guangzhou–Hankou Railway, I was in Changsha. We didn't know a single person. We still found two foremen; one named Zhu Shaolian had two wives. He also wanted revolution, because foremen were oppressed—their wages were low and insufficient. In the end, that man died a heroic sacrifice. How can rooting and linking up like that? Go and develop, go and conduct mass movements, go and lead the masses in struggle. In struggle, let the masses do as they wish, and then, in the course of struggle, create their own leaders. (Liu Zihou described his own method of staying at a fixed point in Ren County to hold struggle meetings.) These struggle meetings should also discuss last year's distribution, discuss work points, and pay attention to production. Does it exist in the south, or not in the north? If there's a disaster, provide disaster relief; if no disaster, clear up the work points, carry out the current year's distribution, and winter production. The "Four Clean-ups" should come later. The "Four Clean-ups" are about cleaning up cadres, cleaning up a few people. Those who are unclean, clean them; those who are not unclean, don't clean them. There are also those who should be cleaned, right? If you don't have lice on your body, must you search until you find one? (Liu XX: One high tide at a time; do not delay. Delay leads to incomplete resolution.) During a period, studying the documents for forty days is scholasticism. That guard by my side wrote to say: After studying the documents for forty days, he still didn't understand; only after going down and staying at a fixed point did he understand. I have always opposed reading documents like that. Studying documents for forty days is superstition. Instead, hold large meetings, engage in struggle, convene three-level struggle meetings at the prefectural and county levels.

Xie Fuzhi's method is worth adopting: pull out twenty percent of the people for training. In a factory of 6,000 people, there are always 5,000 people you aren't relying on. Why not rely on those 5,000, only relying on the 500 people in your work team? In my view, just one person like you is enough. If a minister relies on 5,000 people, can things still not get going? Don't get tangled up in documents, training for so long. Engage in struggle. In the past when we fought wars, we formed up and fought immediately. Sometimes we won, sometimes we lost. We didn't have any books. Some say I carried Romance of the Three Kingdoms into battle—who fights a war by following a book? Comrade Lin was an expert at fighting; XX was also an expert. XXX was an expert too. Expert or amateur, you learn by fighting. If you don't fight and just study there, how can you learn? (Ask Xie Fuzhi) Did your training class of over a thousand people also study the "Double Ten Articles"? How did you study? For how long? (Answer: We studied a little too, but quickly moved to struggle.) Why can't we hold training classes centered on the brigade or the commune? So-called training classes are just struggle meetings—to understand the situation at the meeting, to understand various types of people, to carry out investigation and research. Once those being struggled against have been dealt with sufficiently, then designate one or a few people to sum up. In short, my view is to rely on the masses of workers and peasants. Zhang Chengxian and Li Yuenong from Xincheng County, Hebei Province, have been cadres for many years but don't understand mass movements. With so many people, it's cold and cheerless, and they haven't been able to break through. Li XX, the Secretary of the Baoding Prefectural Party Committee, was the first to propose the "Four Clean-ups." When he went down, he wanted to do something else, but the masses wanted to carry out the "Four Clean-ups." He listened to the masses... It was Li XX, the Secretary of the Baoding Prefectural Party Committee, who proposed the "Four Clean-ups" in 1962. The reason was that at that time, there was oppression in front of us. Whether fighting a war, conducting a peasant movement, or conducting a workers' movement, in the factories there were capitalists, and in the countryside there were landlords and local despots. The Kuomintang's political and military forces were all oppressing us. We had no other way and had to rely on the masses. At that time, Party members and cadres were few. In a factory of several or tens of thousands of workers, there wasn't a single Party member. Having one, you could launch a major revolution, a major strike. On the Guangzhou–Hankou Railway, there wasn't a single Party member, yet we could launch a general strike. You built the Party later. Now, having entered the cities and become officials, you don't know how to conduct mass movements.

Why was it that in the past, when people who attended military academies went to war, they didn't flip through books? At the Huangpu (Whampoa) Military Academy, there was a five-month induction period, and four months as a formal officer cadet. The students trained, drilled a bit, practiced a bit, and then graduated. Comrade Lin Biao said: When you became a company commander, you didn't know how to fight at all. The squad leader had experience; you listened to the squad leader. You fought as he said, and after a few battles, you learned. I don't believe that studying enables you to fight—that an intellectual can fight after reading books for a few years. Not knowing how to fight is perfectly reasonable. After fighting for a few years, you'll learn. Have our work teams come up with any ideas? (Liu XX: The poor and lower-middle peasants have many ideas; we contribute a bit, but the main ones are from the masses.) Listen to them. Listen to the masses, listen to the poor and lower-middle peasants. It's about mobilizing the masses to revolutionize against embezzlement, theft, and speculation. Go after the big ones, spare those under the knife for the small ones. (Liu: One is to rouse the masses; the other is that once the masses are roused, the work team must, at a certain point, grasp the right moment and be adept at observing the situation—when to attack, when to retreat, etc.) It's the same as a strike: when to strike, when to return to work. It's the same in war: to attack or to retreat. If you truly can't hold on, don't you retreat! Sometimes both sides retreat. For example, at the Battle of Happy Hill, Jiang and Cai retreated toward Ganzhou, and we retreated into the ravines—each retreating on their own.

(Ask Chen Boda) How big a meeting did Tianjin hold? (Chen answers: skip it) Unacceptable, terrible! Such a waste of time—just don't hold it then! (Chen interjects: skip it) Sending so many work teams to over a thousand households—too many people can't spread out. The human-wave tactic won't work. With over a thousand households, rely on seven or eight hundred, and things will get going. One Chen Boda is enough. If you think that's too few, take one more along. Just announce: I am Chen Boda. One does not visit the Temple of the Three Treasures without a reason; when there is a matter, we will hold a meeting. The innocent are the majority; the guilty are the minority. Rely on the majority!

(Premier interjects: Just now Chen Yi mentioned that Zhang Qian studied for two months before entering the city.) The more you study, the more foolish you become. With such a strong anti-Rightist push, you end up Right-leaning yourselves. In which county is Zhang Qian? (XXX: Ju Ke County.) I have always opposed studying documents. Read through a document in a few hours, then take it down with you to study. First, when you go down, don't study documents; second, don't bring many people; third, don't root and link up in isolation. Meetings shouldn't be long: if there are words, let them be long; if there are none, let them be short. Let the masses take charge. Not trusting the masses, only trusting the work teams, is no good. The young lad beside me studied documents for forty days and still didn't know what they were about; he only understood after going down. Another one in Tong County said professors are clueless, assistant instructors a bit better, and students even better. I told the lad: The more you've studied for over a decade, the more foolish you've become. If you don't read anything, just tell everyone: I've grown up for twenty-plus years on nothing but honey and don't understand anything. Please, uncles, aunts, and elders, guide me. Still, students are better than assistant instructors, and assistant instructors better than professors. Professors have read far too many books; how else could they be professors? These people going down are an obstacle to carrying out the "Four Clean-ups." Their aim is to prevent the "Four Clean-ups" from being done.

One is Xie Fuzhi's experience: running training classes to conduct struggle. The other is the Henan experience of "three-way combination" in holding struggle meetings. They also engaged in struggle for a month and forty days. They didn't read documents but engaged in struggle, roused the masses, and understood the situation. In short, engage in struggle. (XXX: The brigade I was in, after two months of work, uncovered over 20,000 yuan and over 100,000 jin of grain.) There's still greasy water to squeeze out; borrow some money from them. They have plenty of money; the masses still have hope. Whether to take care of the five-guarantee households or to boost production. Meetings cannot be too small. In some production teams of a dozen or so households, twenty-some people, people speaking can't break through considerations of face. A big meeting of a dozen production teams in a brigade would amount to only a few hundred people at most!

Now, the reason things can't get going is that they don't hold big meetings and don't announce the purpose of their visit.

Never have I seen such a need for so many people. With that many people, I just can't believe they can do the job well.

In short, rely on the masses, not on the work teams. The work teams don’t understand the situation. Some have no knowledge, and some act like officials and hinder the movement. Some members of the work teams themselves cannot be relied upon. Now the line-up has been set like this—one Tong County, one Xincheng County. If anyone complains of having too few people, I’ll cut the number by half; if they still complain, I’ll cut it by half again. In Tong County, twenty thousand people—cut by half and reassign the rest elsewhere. Wouldn’t five thousand people for a county suffice? (Comrade Kang Sheng interjected: Rooting and linking up was invented by Comrade Deng. …) Ah, invented by Comrade Deng! It’s mystification! Not announcing the purpose of the visit. We must announce what we are doing: production, distribution, work points—focus on these matters. Mention a little about the Four Clean-ups; whether it’s clean or not, let the masses discuss it. If there’s something to clean up, do it; if not, let it go. If there’s no clarity among the masses, hold meetings with several hundred people. For small teams of a dozen or so households, hold meetings at the brigade level. Say the county has already held meetings—if these words get out, they have a powerful effect. When the county party secretary’s problems are serious, send them as part of a work team to another county. The way things are being done now, I think it’s too cumbersome. In the case of Chen Boda’s group, with over a thousand households, just a few people at the start got things going. Later, five hundred more were added—why need so many? (Comrade Deng interjected) Speak at greater length and oppose impetuousness. Wouldn’t it be better to say completion in five or six years, three or four years, or two or three years? Methods are very important—concentrating over ten thousand people in one county is excessive. In 1927 when we set up peasant associations, one person per county—it was the peasants themselves who got them going. There weren’t many cadres. The Agriculture Department, Finance Department, Armed Forces Department… seven or eight of them at the start were all bold elements; those who surrounded the county seat were also those bold elements. They demanded excessive thoroughness, but in reality it couldn’t be that thorough. A very small number of those in power wormed their way in—this is serious—but the majority can be won over and reformed, and still have their uses. If it’s taken too far, the masses won’t necessarily approve. Let’s be a bit more open-minded: it may go faster, but it can’t be that utterly thorough. (Comrade Liu interjected) In factories, reliable workers must hold the advantage.

The work teams aren’t necessarily all that clean—do we absolutely have to expel people with problems? Not necessarily. The work teams can include people guilty of corruption and speculation, as long as they come clean. People like us have no knowledge of corruption and speculation, no experience of it; they have experience—we can’t do without them. Concentrating forces to fight a battle of annihilation—the directional problem hasn’t been solved. How to strike? With so many people, you can’t even get things off the ground. Not as good as Chen Boda’s approach. Relying on human-wave tactics won’t work; it will lead to problems.

Comrade Wang raised the issue of cadre exchanges—from this county to that county, from this commune to that commune. When new people arrive and don’t have the inside story, the masses dare to speak up. When a new commune head or new secretary comes, people dare to talk about what went before. Things can be launched very quickly—why take ages?

Now, the work teams must not be so pure. Rooting and linking up results in a chilly, dreary atmosphere with no mass movement. Ten or twenty thousand people in one county—and still considered too few? (Comrades Liu, Deng, and others…) The Poor and Lower-Middle Peasants’ Association must make clear these issues—tell this to Comrade Tao and the others.