Périer said he recently visited Peking University.

The Chairman said: This is not a good university.

Périer continued: I met the president, department heads, professors, and students. They talked about their activities, and I think they are enthusiastic in terms of research and civic spirit.

The Chairman said: That is what they told you, but what they told you they do and what they actually do are not necessarily the same. This is not a good university.

Duhamel said: I had the honor of visiting a technical school in Xi’an, spent two hours there, and talked with the students. One of them was eager to join the Party and said it is not easy to join the Party. ... At this school, I saw three female students; two were daughters of doctors, that is, daughters of the bourgeoisie, but their thinking has been socialized. They can recite Chairman Mao’s works from memory, and they could answer my questions using quotes from Chairman Mao’s works.

The Chairman said: Of course, they spoke well to you. But do not believe everything you hear. The future will tell you whether these students are good or bad. Whether they are good or not depends on the future. They will be judged by real life, not by what they have learned from books. What they are learning now can only serve as reference material. Just as in the past when we went to school, we did not necessarily follow everything the teachers said. In the liberal arts, there are courses in grammar and rhetoric, but when writing essays, one does not write according to those rules. Grammar is somewhat useful, but rhetoric is not necessarily useful. It is polished, but not much used. Who writes essays strictly according to rhetoric?

Périer: Change the curriculum a bit, make it more lively.

The Chairman: Yes, more lively, more practical, and in line with reality.