Bo:
Khrushchev wants to buy time.

Mao: They proposed to us through Romania that we stop the open polemics. (At this point, a reporter from Tuanjie Bao came in, and the Chairman stood up and said, "Welcome, you are all young people.") We told them: as soon as you leave, we will publish articles. Before our articles were even written, articles from other fraternal parties were published. We haven't finished commenting on their open letter yet; only eight articles have been written, and several more are needed to finish. Now they have new proposals, and they want time again. They want to hold a meeting, a meeting between the Chinese and Soviet parties in May. I'm sorry, I think it will probably be around May next year. They want to take "collective measures" against us, and we said, let's see your "collective measures."

Bo: They will continue to go down that path.

Mao: Maybe they will take some "collective measures," we are prepared. Whatever measures, go ahead and take them!

Bo: China is a giant, we saw many things in the Northeast!

Mao: China is a backward country, it has a little industry to start with, and the industry in the Northeast is relatively developed; it has begun to accumulate some agricultural experience, and it will be better after a few more five-year plans. The more they try to fix us, the better it might be.

(Comrade [name omitted]) Who is this comrade?

Chen: [name omitted].

Mao: You are working in literature and art now, have you been to Yan'an?

Chen: Yes, I've seen the Chairman several times. Now I'm working in film.

Mao: Film, drama, and literature are not good if they don't reflect modern workers and peasants. There are still many ideologies in our society that have not been transformed, and we are currently working on this. (Asking Chen) When did you join the Party?

Chen: In 1932, in Shanghai.

Mao: That was the era of the Agrarian Revolution, the Long March was in 1934. Those present today are engaged in ideological work.

Conversation with the Albanian Women's Delegation and Film Workers

Bo: Qibuliye and Qiwu are deputy ministers of culture and education.

Chen: There are also composers, directors, and cinematographers.

Mao: You are all engaged in ideological work.

Bo: Mass organizations also do ideological work and implement the Party's line.

Mao: Our Party is a party of workers and peasants, the government is a government of workers and peasants, the army is an army of workers and peasants, and ideology, as part of the superstructure, should reflect workers and peasants. Old ideology is very stubborn; old things cannot be driven away, they refuse to give way, they refuse even to die. We must use methods to drive them away, but not too roughly. If it's too rough, people will be uncomfortable. We must use subtle methods to overcome the old, as the old still has its market. The main thing is that we must replace it with new things. What you advocate will not be realized all at once, there's no such thing; you advocate yours, and he practices his. It has been decades since we proposed that literature and art serve workers, peasants, and soldiers, but some of our comrades, while verbally agreeing, actually oppose it. Is it better now?

Chen: Much better.

Mao: Including some Party members and non-Party individuals, they love those dead people, besides dead people, it's foreigners, and foreigners are also dead people, reflecting dead people, and also reflecting living people. Your country probably has these problems too?

Bo: Yes, we do. There are remnants of the past, and external influences.

Mao: Very stubborn.

Bo: Especially women.

Mao: Women should be divided into young, old, and middle-aged. Old people are superstitious because they have suffered a lot in their lives and place their hopes in gods. Their next generation is better than them. You can visit Lingyin Temple in Hangzhou; many people go there every day to burn incense, including old men and women, accompanied by their sons, daughters, and grandchildren. They go to truly burn incense, but their sons, grandsons, and granddaughters go to play, not to truly burn incense, but to visit Hangzhou.

The situation also depends on conditions. In Wuhan, Shanghai, and Hangzhou, you can see that wooden boat and steamboat workers no longer believe in gods. In the old society, steamboat workers didn't believe in gods, but wooden boat workers still did, respecting the Dragon King, because there was no guarantee, and strong winds and waves could capsize the boat. It's the same with women giving birth; if there's a hospital guarantee, they don't believe in gods. Without a doctor, without a guarantee, they still have to believe in gods. (Asking Comrade [name omitted]) Have you noticed? If there's no doctor, telling her not to believe won't work.

Bo: Without scientific knowledge, it's impossible to eliminate superstition, so we need to train cadres and gradually eliminate superstition. The problem is that capitalism and revisionism influence us through radio, music, and literature.

Mao: This influence must be gradually resisted. Our country and your country can choose not to import revisionist and capitalist literary and artistic works. The question is what we ourselves will replace them with.

Bo: Our country is particularly small, and having fewer people is even more important.

Mao: Your country is small, but it performs remarkably in the world, very powerful; you hold high the banner of Marxism-Leninism. The Soviet Union is controlled by revisionism. What is revisionism? It is bourgeois ideology, politics, economy, and culture. The Soviet Union is already a bourgeois regime; of course, we cannot say that the entire social structure has become capitalist, it hasn't had time, and there is still resistance. Since revisionism is a capitalist thing, it cannot represent the truth of Marxism-Leninism; it can only represent a minority. Class struggle exists in the Soviet Union, and it exists seriously. Those who oppose Khrushchev are locked up in mental asylums. This is fascist dictatorship, which is very noteworthy. We must manage our country well; I cannot guarantee that China will not produce revisionism a hundred years from now.

Bo: Individuals will emerge, but with your current leadership, it will not happen.

Mao: We strive for it.

Qiwu: Aren't you educating the youth with revolutionary spirit?

Mao: Educate with class struggle, acknowledge the existence of classes, the existence of class struggle, and appropriately conduct class struggle, bloodless, not war, but a few saboteurs must be dealt with, counter-revolutionaries, saboteurs, imperialist running dogs, Chiang Kai-shek's running dogs, and Khrushchev's running dogs. The social situation in our country is quite complex; don't view problems simply. I often advise foreign comrades not to view China simply. There is a bright side, which is primary, and also a dark side, which is secondary, but noteworthy. Society is composed of these two sides. There are two to three million people who want to restore landlords and the bourgeoisie, which is more than the population of your country.

Conversation with the Albanian Women's Delegation and Film Workers

Bo: They could form divisions.

Mao: But they are dispersed, and their degree of involvement varies. We have ways to make them abide by the rules, and for the few who don't, we have ways to subdue them.

Bo: Dictatorship.

Mao: Dictatorship always has an object. Don't believe Khrushchev's words; he says dictatorship has no object, that the party of the whole people and the state of the whole people are deceptive, there's no such thing. He puts forward these slogans to cover up his bourgeois restoration, to deceive people. We must expose the deception of the party of the whole people and the state of the whole people. You probably agree, right?

Bo: Completely agree.

Mao: There are classes, then there is consciousness; it either represents this or that. It is possible for two different classes to be represented by one party. The state is an instrument of dictatorship, otherwise it should not be called a state. How many more years will dictatorship last? It's uncertain now, possibly hundreds of years. To achieve communism where everyone takes what they need, imperialism must be overthrown.

Bo: And revisionism.

Mao: And revisionism, and reactionaries in various countries. Production must also reach a certain level, and culture and education must reach a certain level; only when these conditions are met is it possible. We've talked too much, for too long this time.

Bo: Thank you for giving us a lesson.

Mao: The issues have been too broad. Please extend my regards to Comrades Hoxha, Shehu, Kapo, and other comrades.

In April 1964, Mao Zedong met with Albanian Labor Party leaders Shehu and Kapo.