Chairman: Has the cultural delegation visited any places yet?

Osmin Fernández (hereinafter referred to as O): We have visited Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Wuhan.

Chairman: How much time in total?

O: Exactly twenty-six days.

Chairman: When did last year's delegation arrive?

Félix Cuzola (hereinafter referred to as F): We arrived last Sunday.

Zhang XX (hereinafter referred to as Zhang): When Premier Zhou met with us yesterday, he expressed the hope that the youth delegation would visit Yan'an.

F: Yesterday, comrades from the Central Committee told us that we could visit Yan'an.

Chairman: That place is very backward. Going to see a backward place also has its benefits. Has the cultural delegation come to sign a cultural agreement? Has it been signed?

O: It was signed at noon the day before yesterday (the 24th), and we are very satisfied.

Chairman: Very satisfied?

O: Yes, very satisfied.

Chairman: What does the agreement include?

O: The agreement mainly concerns matters regarding the exchange of delegations between the two countries. The Cuban side will invite a Chinese acrobatic troupe to visit, and we will also send an art troupe to China. In addition, both sides will exchange language students, films, books, periodicals, and other cultural materials.

Chairman: Our films, I’m afraid, are not so outstanding.

O: Films are a powerful tool for educating the masses. We believe that Chinese films can play this role.

Chairman: The effect of films is not small, but we have too few good ones.

O: China’s film industry, like its other economic construction endeavors, is advancing rapidly.

Chairman: We still cannot fully manufacture film stock on our own. Can you manufacture film stock?

O: Cuba does not produce film stock.

Chairman: Is it imported?

O: Imported. Cuban films are mainly documentaries and short films.

Chairman: As things develop gradually, feature films will be made. Our acrobatics are a pastime handed down from history.

O: The troupe going to Havana was formed by the Wuhan acrobatic troupe. We personally went to Wuhan to see their performances.

Chairman: Has an acrobatic troupe been to Cuba before?

Zhang: No, it hasn’t. Previously, a song-and-dance troupe and a Peking opera troupe have been.

Chairman: Didn’t an acrobatic troupe go in the past?

Zhang: That was to visit Latin American countries such as Brazil. At that time, the Cuban revolution had not yet succeeded, so our art troupe could not enter.

Chairman: The Cuban revolution has progressed very rapidly, defeating the enemy within a few years. Our revolution took a very long time—over twenty years. There were domestic enemies and foreign enemies. The foreign enemy was Japan, against whom we fought for eight years; the domestic enemy was Chiang Kai-shek, against whom we fought for fourteen years. Before Japan invaded, we fought Chiang Kai-shek for ten years, and after Japan surrendered, we fought for another four years. Chiang Kai-shek was supported by U.S. imperialism. Later, we fought the Americans in Korea for nearly three years. Many people fear Americans. In our country, many people also feared Americans. After three years of fighting, fewer people fear America. Now, the Americans are fighting in southern Vietnam. The people of southern Vietnam have only very backward weapons, while the U.S. has many modern weapons, including aircraft, artillery, helicopters, germ warfare, and chemical warfare, yet after five or six years of fighting, the southern people and their army are developing, their base areas are constantly expanding, and they no longer fear Americans. These experiences are well worth recounting.

To some extent, American soldiers are inferior to Japanese soldiers. We fought Japan for eight years. American soldiers do have combat effectiveness; they have many weapons and good weapons, but they do not like to fight wars. To dominate the globe, U.S. imperialism uses war to threaten the people of the world and makes various combat preparations. One type is nuclear war, which may or may not be fought; the other is conventional warfare. Their policy is to fight conventional wars. The fighting in Vietnam is precisely such conventional warfare. In the past, the war we and the Korean people fought was also this type. At that time, it was not that they lacked atomic bombs, but they did not dare to use them; now they have even more atomic bombs, yet in southern Vietnam they still do not dare to use them. The current U.S. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Taylor, is the man who fought us in Korea. He has written a book, and if you have the chance, it would be best to read it. The title is *The Uncertain Trumpet*. In this book, he criticizes Truman and Eisenhower for not emphasizing conventional weapons in the past. War—they clamor about fighting an atomic war, yet they do not fight it; this is what is meant by an uncertain trumpet. During Eisenhower’s administration, Taylor served as Army Chief of Staff; later, because he could not realize his ideas, he resigned. After Kennedy was elected president, he rose again and became Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the Army, Navy, and Air Force.

In your view, do the people of the world still fear U.S. imperialism so much?

O: From our perspective, national liberation movements around the world are now developing vigorously. In Latin America, in countries such as Venezuela and Peru, the people’s revolutionary wars are surging daily. Although these countries are very small and their strength for fighting a conventional war is insufficient, they are still waging struggles there. They do not fear U.S. imperialism and dare to oppose the dictatorial, reactionary regimes backed by the United States.

Chairman: They are just like you. If one only fears, draws back one’s hands, lets others catch them and lock them in prison, or kill them, then the flame of revolution is extinguished. When we joined the Korean War and when we fought Chiang Kai-shek, within our ranks there were also many who feared Americans. But what use was fear? Could we disarm? At that time, most people were indifferent to fear or not, because the enemy had already attacked—what use was fear? The result of the fighting was our victory, so it is clear there is no need to be so afraid, and fearing Americans is superfluous. Besides the United States, there are other imperialist countries, such as France. They fought in northern Vietnam, and Comrade Ho Chi Minh won. In Algeria, the Algerian National Liberation Army also won. They fought for seven years, enduring many hardships. The French army numbered as many as 800,000, while the Algerian National Liberation Army had only 30,000 to 40,000. Many of them have spoken to me, including the current Speaker of Parliament, former Prime Minister Abbas. Do you know of Abbas?

O: We know his name.

Chairman: They told us a great deal about their difficulties. Algeria sacrificed one-ninth of its population—that is, of 9 million people, 1 million died. Moreover, the French military leadership even published the pamphlets I had written, attempting to defeat the Algerian National Liberation Army. I told them that the pamphlets I wrote are pamphlets on people’s war; the anti-people’s war side cannot make use of them. They wanted to make use of them, but in reality, it was impossible. During our civil war, Chiang Kai-shek also used the pamphlets I wrote, hoping to defeat us, and still it did not work. The Americans also wanted to use our methods. Many of them study the strategies and tactics of Chinese guerrilla warfare and mobile warfare, yet in the Korean War, they gained no advantage.

In the Korean War, apart from the United States, fifteen other countries took part. Including the United States, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Turkey, Colombia, and so on. Of course, the main force was the Americans. The United States sent a division, Turkey sent a brigade, Colombia sent a battalion—they cobbled it together. They came to Korea under the banner of the United Nations. The fighting lasted two and a half years (nearly three years), and the negotiations lasted a full two years, with fighting and talking going on at the same time. The negotiating site was a small place at the border between the two sides—Panmunjom.

O: We visited that place when we were in Korea.

Zhang: The cultural delegation was in Korea before visiting China.

Chairman: Korea is well worth seeing. One should study how, at that time, they fought and talked simultaneously; how, with very few people and weapons, they defeated an enemy armed with powerful weapons.

O: We stayed in Korea for ten days.

Chairman: Did you see the defensive works in Korea?

O: When we visited Korea, we went to Panmunjom in Kaesong and visited the military museum. In the exhibition hall, there was a model of Height 1112; the mountaintop had been blasted down two meters by the enemy.

Chairman: Inside the mountain were our works and tunnels. We used various methods to deal with the enemy. Mountainous areas have mountain methods, and plains have plain methods. No matter how good or powerful the enemy’s weapons are, because they oppose the revolution and are not beneficial to the people, they cannot win. Their only path is defeat. In the end, all imperialists and reactionaries of various countries will perish—we who are seated here are proof. Did not Batista, the reactionary backed by the United States, also fail? In your struggle against the reactionaries, did you have any foreign aid?

O: Only seven rifles.

Chairman: Exactly! Without any foreign aid—just rifles, and very few at that—you still won. Our war in China proves this point as well. In the face of a powerful enemy, because you dared to fight, you ultimately won.

Comrade Enlai’s suggestion that the youth delegation visit Yan’an is well-founded. Although Yan’an is very backward, at that time it was the seat of our leading organs. Chiang Kai-shek was in Nanjing and Shanghai. Nanjing was a city of one million people; Shanghai was a city of seven million, where foreigners lived, and it was easy to obtain foreign aid. Yan’an city and its vicinity had only seven thousand people. It seems it was not big cities defeating small cities, but small cities defeating big cities; not big cities defeating villages, but the people in villages encircling cities and finally seizing the cities; not the enemy with cannons, aircraft, and tanks defeating us, but the people’s army with only rifles, light artillery, and hand grenades defeating the enemy. At first, we had no cannons. By the second year of fighting, we had cannons; by the third year, we had even more. Where did they come from? From the United States—Chiang Kai-shek transported them to us. Later, we also had tanks, also sent by Chiang Kai-shek. At that time, we simply had no aircraft; our air force was built up only after liberation. Without an air force, one can still defeat those who have one. Aircraft play a very small role; they kill few people and cannot destroy many factories or houses. Has anyone among you been to London?

O: One comrade in our delegation has been there.

Chairman: During the Second World War, London was in a very perilous position. After the British army retreated from Dunkirk, the troops were completely disorganized, the coastal defenses were undefended, the air force could not defend London, the navy could not safeguard the supply lines, and the army and air force suffered heavy losses. At that time, Hitler’s air force heavily bombed London, but it did not cause much destruction. According to comrades from here who have visited, the rear-area land, sea, and air forces soon recovered. So, the effect of air forces is not great. What decides victory or defeat in war is still the infantry, the ground forces. In your war, did the enemy have an air force?

O: They heavily bombed the liberated areas.

Chairman: Was the effect significant?

O: The only result was that the enemy spent a lot of money.

Chairman: During our War of Liberation, the Kuomintang also heavily bombed Yan’an in large formations. On one occasion, they killed a pig but wounded or killed no one. On another occasion, in the countryside, they killed two civilians. Have I spoken too much today?

O: We are very eager to hear Chairman Mao’s talks.

Chairman: Today, I spoke a little about history. We may have another chance to talk in the future.