The Impact Of The Struggle Of Thejapanese People Is Far-Reaching

Date: 1961-01-24
Source: en:FLP-Diplomacy
THE IMPACT OF THE STRUGGLE OF THE JAPANESE
PEOPLE IS FAR-REACHING*
(January 24, 1961)
Chairman Mao Zedong (hereinafter referred to as Mao): You are going to
stay more days in China, aren't you? I am happy whenever I meet with
Japanese friends. We express our condolences over the tragedy of Mr. Asanuma
Inejiro.^^^
Kuroda Hisao (hereinafter referred to as Kuroda): As head of the delega
tion of the Socialist Party, Asanuma Inejiro made a very good speech, declaring
that U.S. imperialism was the common enemy of the Chinese and Japanese
peoples. We shall carry on and carry forward Asanuma Inejiro's spirit.
Mao: Mr. Asanuma Inejiro grasped the essence of Japanese-U.S. relations
as well as the essence of the issue of the various nations in Asia, Africa, Latin
America, even in Europe and Canada in North America and that of China.
The number of people who agree with this thesis varies from time to time, but
with the passage of time, those who agree are bound to become the majority.
The United States does not have a way to establish its rule in various
countries, so it must rely on its helpers, who are its allies, that is, the most
reactionary handful of people of the country. In China it is those with Chiang
Kai-shek as their chieftain. In your country it is Kishi Nobusuke^o^ and his
gang and the monopoly capitalist clique.
Kuroda: Last year in Japan there was a very big movement against the
"Security Pact."2" The government which represents the monopoly capitalists
took the opposite stand. It opposed us and forcibly adopted the "Security
Pact". At the same time, China held very big demonstrations in support of
us, for which we feel grateful.
Mao: We support each other. In international struggles there is always
mutual support. You are in the forefront.
When Asanuma Inejiro visited China in 1959, he mentioned that U.S.
* These are excerpts from Mao Zedong's talk with Kuroda Hisao, a Diet member from
the Japanese Socialist Party.
imperialism is the common enemy of the Chinese and Japanese peoples. We
should have confidence that the majority will agree with this when they
understand it, even if not many agree with it for a certain period of time. In
1960, in just one year, Japan saw tremendous changes, and the anti-"Security Pact" drive reached a momentum and developed into a popular struggle.
Relations between our two countries are abnormal and trade has stopped.
When I met the delegation headed by Asanuma Inejiro in East Lake in Wuhan,
I said that the severance of relations between China and Japan was temporary
and there would be changes with the passage of time. We have already seen
changes in trade, but not necessarily politically. Politically there are two sides
to it. On the one hand, the Chinese and Japanese peoples have friendly
relations as always, friendly relations developed after the Second World War.
On the other hand, relations with the Liberal Democratic government and
with the monopoly capitalists are not alright. They must wait. It is essential
to differentiate between the protagonists of relations with the Japanese people
and those with the Japanese government. With regard to relations with the
Japanese government, it is necessary to differentiate between the protagonists
of the so-called mainstream and those of the so-called anti-mainstream, who
are not entirely the same. Matsumura Kenzo,^'" Miki Takeo,^”® Takasaki
Tatsunosuke,^^' Kono Ichiro"® and Ishibashi Tanzan"^ are our indirect allies.
The Japanese people are our direct allies; similarly the Chinese people are the
direct allies of the Japanese people. There are contradictions within the Liberal
Democratic Party; the anti-mainstream is our indirect ally. Do you think there
is something in what I said?
Kuroda: The anti-mainstream may be called an indirect alley if it understands China better and becomes a firmer opponent to the "Security Pact."
Mao: The same is true of relations between the United States and
European countries. They are not in total consensus with the United States.
People all over the world have raised their consciousness, mainly the Asian,
African and Latin American peoples. Do you do any work in Africa and Latin
America?
•
Kuroda: We have an Asia Solidarity Committee. With this organization
as the center, activities are carried out to struggle against U.S. imperialism and
support peace and the national independence movement of the Asian, African
and Latin American peoples. We should like to further mobilize and streng
then the activities in the future.
Mao: This is highly necessary.
Kuroda: This year in Asia the
question is the Laos question. The
Laotian people are striving for national liberation. The United States makes

use of the Japan-U.S. "Security Pact" and Japanese military bases to interfere
in Laos' internal affairs. Recently, trade unions, political parties, mass organ
izations and cultural organizations held a rally against the American use of
Japanese military bases in interfering in Laos' internal affairs. They held
demonstrations in front of the American Embassy, demanding the United
States stop interfering, and they also demonstrated before the Japanese gov
ernment, demanding it not allow the United States to use Japanese bases.
Mao: This is excellent.
Kuroda: Now the Japanese government is negotiating with the South
Korean government to solve the Korean question, with the view of taking the
South Korean government as the legitimate government of the whole of Korea.
This impedes the peaceful reunification of Korea. The United States takes
advantage of the Japan-South Korea talks to strengthen its military forces in
South Korea, Taiwan and Japan and to strengthen the military alliance in
Northeast Asia. The Japanese people who struggled against the Japan-U.S.
"Security Pact" are struggling against the negotiations between Japan and
South Korea.
Mao: It is highly necessary to oppose them.
Recently, the Philippines, Taiwan, South Korea and South Vietnam,
which have relations with the United States, held "foreign minister talks." The
Japanese government, for fear of the Japanese people, did not participate.
Therefore, the Japanese people's struggle last year made the Japanese govern
ment apprehensive. The Japanese people's struggle has far-reaching influence.
It seems the Japanese people are now between the first and the second
high tide against U.S. imperialism. The struggle, at low ebb for the time being,
brooding over a second high tide, makes wavelike progress. You know, our
Chinese struggle in the past scores of years developed like waves advancing
rather than in a straight line every day, every month and every year. So the
people's movement you are leading has a bright future. But some people,
pessimistic, complain that the movement may get nowhere and some may
reproach you Leftists for having led a wrong struggle. At this moment we say
the Left should hold out tenaciously. For instance, before the 1911 Revolution
the military uprising in April 1911, led by Huang Xing,"^ suffered defeat and
all the martyrs were buried in Huanghuagang. After the defeat Huang Xing
fled to Hong Kong, feeling he had failed and it would not work; he felt
hopeless. Unexpectedly, the 1911 Revolution took place before long and the
Qing Dynasty was overthrown. After the defeat of the Russian Revolution in
1905, most of the Social Democratic Labor Party were pessimistic, and the
"Creating-God Faction"^^^ came into being, Anatoly Lunacharsky for one.
They were all idealists. Lenin wrote Materialism and Empirio-Criticism, a
philosophical book, to criticize them. Twelve years later the Russian Revolu
tion succeeded, and Lunacharsky became the minister of education in Lenin's
government, so he no longer wanted to create God. I think you may find such
cases in your history.
Why is it the revolution in your country has not succeeded? It seems that
victory may come quite late in countries where capitalism is quite developed.
Revolution will first succeed in countries where capitalism is less developed,
because the air there is thin and it is easy to break through. Russia and China
are cases in point. Africa is another case in point. The monopoly capitalism
in Japan is frail compared with that in the seven or eight capitalist powers,
such as the United States, Britain, France, Germany and Italy, because, first,
Japan was defeated and, second, it is under the control of the United States.
In a sense, these two aspects are advantageous to the Japanese people, I
think.
First, the defeat and the loss of all the colonies are in Japan's favor. The
Japanese people and revolutionary political parties should understand that the
defeat is not a shame. It is a shame for monopoly capitalism, but a victory for
the people. You should start a debate on whether being defeated is good or a
shame. Some people do not think about it that way, feeling they lost face with
the defeat and are guilty of evil doings. This is because they have not
differentiated between monopoly capitalism and the people, so they have come
to that conclusion. The monopoly capitalist and militarist government instead
of the Japanese people should be held accountable for the war in the past. Why
should the Japanese people hold the responsibility? If the people are to hold
the responsibility, then everybody will oppose the Japanese people. How
terrible! In fact, the Japanese militarist government threatened, deceived and
forced the Japanese people to become its cannon fodder.
Second, it is necessary to analyze being dominated by the United States.
I think the people of a nation will not become conscious without oppression
from outside. Now Japan is being oppressed by the monopoly capitalists of
Japan as much as by the United States, its ally. This has educated the Japanese
people and united them. It has forced the Japanese people to choose between
becoming slaves of the U.S. imperialists and the Japanese
monopoly capitalists and rising
to strive for independence and freedom. I said long ago that I did not believe
a great nation such as Japan would be bullied for long, but it is possible to be
suppressed for a short period. Our people were also educated by enemies at
home and from abroad, including Japanese militarists. When Minamigo
Saburo^^” came from Japan to see me, he first said Japan had invaded China,

for which he felt sorry. I told him we did not see it that way. Indeed, Japanese
warlords occupied the greater part of China, thus educating the Chinese
people; otherwise, the Chinese people could not become conscious or get
united. We would still be in the mountains and would not be able to come
into Beijing to watch Beijing opera. It was just because the Japanese "imperial
army" occupied the greater part of China that the Chinese people were left
no way out but to get awakened and armed for struggle and to establish
anti-aggressor bases, thus creating conditions for the victory of the Liberation
War. So the Japanese warlords and monopoly capitalists did a good thing. I
would rather "thank" the Japanese warlords if asked to say "thanks." A great
nation like Japan should be independent and have its sovereignty. Japan is
more advanced than China in economy and education. Okayama County is
said to have seven colleges. Wuxi, in China, has a high education level, but
does not have as many as seven colleges. We do not have any county like the
Japanese one. It will take quite some time for China to catch up with Japan.
Japan, with a Diet, is a bourgeois democracy. This is your good point and
shortcoming as well. China did not have democracy. The Kuomintang arrested
and killed people, offering us nothing. It was perhaps a shortcoming or a
strong point. Then, what was the way out for us? It lay in learning from
Chiang Kai-shek. They could kill, so why couldn't we? After study we learned
that the Kuomintang had hands holding guns and swords, while we had hands
holding neither guns nor swords. If we could seize weapons from the Kuo
mintang, we could kill the imperialist running dogs and achieve something,
couldn't we?
But you are in a different situation, with a Diet system and some relative
democracy. You may make use of it to start a mass movement, since it is not
like the Kuomintang, arresting and killing people. I do not know much about
your country. Perhaps the Japanese monopoly capitalists are smarter than the
Chinese compradors. It seems that you may take advantage of this. They are
afraid of the rising up of the common people. For instance, the government
could not forbid many Japanese friends from visiting China. Nor could it
forbid Chinese people from going to Japan. They could set restrictions,
however, because the Japanese government has diplomatic relations with
Chiang Kai-shek; in addition, they fear the Communist Party. Takasaki
Tatsunosuke has invited Comrade Liao Chengzhi^®' to visit Japan. Comrade
Liao Chengzhi, when will you go?
Liao Chengzhi'. It's not decided yet.
Mao: Recently, a trade union delegation visited Japan. Nongovernmental
exchanges are very good for enhancing mutual understanding and exchanging
views and experiences. Contracts of nongovernmental trade have been signed
with some big transactions. We have coal, salt, iron ore and soybeans to trade
with Japan. China and Japan are close neighbors, so the transportation costs
are cheap.
Kuroda: I totally agree. This year will see more and more nongovernmen
tal exchanges.
No matter what the Ikeda^^ administration feels, exchanges between the
Chinese and Japanese peoples will increase, the friendly relations will deepen,
and a friendship treaty will certainly be signed.
Mao: Very good. There is a bright future.
Kuroda: Our coming to China at the beginning of the year is also for
friendship between the two peoples. We have heard a lot of beneficial remarks
from our Chinese friends and seen the development of China's socialist
construction, which is very helpful to us. We should like to express our thanks
and wish the Chairman good health.
Mao: Please give my regards to friends in the Japanese Socialist Party,
both those I know and those I do not know.
(From the verbatim record)