In Tibet, among a population of 1.2 million, more than 110,000 are lamas. They cannot be supported, there are too many, and it is not beneficial to the development of production and the population. I am still not clear, in the past, were all of the more than 110,000 lamas chanting scriptures?

Panchen: No. Among the lamas in the monasteries, those who truly understand religion and have studied the Buddhist classics are mostly from the middle stratum. Among the upper-stratum lamas in the monasteries, very few truly study the classics. The lower-stratum lamas are the slaves of the monasteries, busy with corvée labor and work, with no time to study the scriptures; some are even illiterate. Among the lower-stratum lamas, some became lamas in order to get a corvée post, some became lamas due to the pressures of life, and some were assigned the corvée of being a lama. For example, in some places, if a family has three sons, one must be sent to be a lama. The situation of assigning the corvée of being a lama is relatively rare in large monasteries, but most small monasteries assign the corvée of being a lama.

Mao: I am in favor of having several thousand people study the scriptures and become Buddhist intellectuals. Do you think they should also study some social sciences and natural sciences at the same time, to understand politics, science, culture, and general knowledge? For example, you are an expert in religion. If you do not understand politics, science, culture, and lack general knowledge, then your leadership work will be very difficult to do.

Panchen: Regarding this issue, I have spoken with Minister Li. That group of people who specialize in studying Buddhist classics must be made to learn some political, scientific, and cultural knowledge. If they only study the classics without studying politics and science, and become completely engrossed in the classics, because these classics are essentially idealist, then even if they are not politically reactionary, they will naturally oppose the revolution.

Mao: Buddhist studies must be studied. We have set up a Buddhist academy, with a two-year graduation, specializing in politics. I think this method is not good. It should be four years, with another two years dedicated to studying Buddhism. Being politically good but having no learning in Buddhist studies is still not acceptable. In our country now, among those with learning in Buddhist studies, you are of course one. Besides Xirao Jiacuo[1], who else is there? Very few, right?

Li Weihan: There are also Awang Jiacuo, Zhao Puchu[1], and a few others.

Zhou Enlai: When Xirao Jiacuo visited the Buddhist countries of Southeast Asia, what is prevalent in those countries is Hinayana Buddhism[2]. Because he understands Hinayana, he got along very well with them.

Mao: Is Tibet Mahayana[3] or Hinayana?

Panchen: What we study is Mahayana, and we practice Esoteric Buddhism[4], but Hinayana is the foundation, so we also understand Hinayana.

Mao: What scriptures did Shakyamuni[5] teach? It was Mahayana, right?

Panchen: The scriptures taught by Shakyamuni are divided into three periods. In the early and late periods, he taught Hinayana; in the middle period, he taught Mahayana.

Mao: Are the *Lotus Sutra* and the *Diamond Sutra* both in your Tibetan classics? Did Shakyamuni author more classics than Kongfuzi[6] authored books?

Panchen: There are many. It is said that the classics he authored were as many as could be carried by five hundred large elephants. This may be somewhat of an exaggeration, but in fact, the scriptures he taught are very numerous. Those translated from Sanskrit into Tibetan are only a small part of them. Among the Tibetan Buddhist scriptures, some were translated from Sanskrit into Chinese, and then from Chinese into Tibetan, but very few were translated from original Chinese works into Tibetan. In Tibetan, there are quite a few books on medicine, arithmetic, and so on, which were translated from Chinese into Tibetan. Tibet also has the *Diamond Sutra*; that was translated from Sanskrit into Tibetan.

Mao: The *Diamond Sutra* is a sutra well worth reading. I also want to study Buddhist studies a bit. When there is an opportunity, you can explain it to me!

Panchen: The Buddhist scriptures' view of the world, although it is itself still idealist, is very different from that of other religious sects.

Mao: What I was just talking about is professional work versus politics. So many people in the world believe in religion, yet we do not understand religion. I am in favor of having some communists study the classics of various religions, to study the classics of Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, and so on. Because this is a mass issue, so many people among the masses believe in religion. We need to do mass work, but if we do not understand religion, being only red but not expert, it will not do. In Tibet, there are not many learned people like Xirao Jiacuo, right?

I have already spoken on three issues. One, the social system of Tibet, after reform, has changed from a feudal serf system to a system of individual peasant ownership, and it needs a period of stability. Two, for the upper strata, their lives and positions must be well arranged, and ideological remolding must be gentle and subtle. Three, the religious issue: have several thousand people study the scriptures, study politics and various kinds of knowledge; at the same time, make them understand that in the past there were 110,000 lamas, and now leaving a few thousand to specialize in studying the scriptures, with nearly 100,000 engaged in production, is of great benefit to the development of the economy and the population.

The fourth issue, countering the right will inevitably produce "leftism." This exists not only in Xigazê, but also in other parts of Tibet. It is being corrected and must be corrected. Apologize to those who were wrongly struggled against. Some bad elements who sow discord must be dealt with. For example, your parents were not formally struggled against, but some of the masses went to their home to search it. The homes of Ji Jinmei, Lamin[1], and others were also searched. This kind of behavior is wrong, and they should be apologized to. You are patriotic and progressive personages. You have cooperated with us since Xiangride. At that time, our army arrived in Qinghai, and you were suspicious, afraid that we would rectify you, so you fled. Later you returned, and we cooperated. Without the escort of the People's Liberation Army, you would not have been able to return either. The Ninth Panchen died in Yushu. We have cooperated for so long. Since 1951, on major principles and policies such as quelling the rebellion and reform, we have been in agreement, consistently cooperating. Please convey my regards to your parents, Ji Jinmei, and Lamin. They are good people, patriotic and progressive.

We trust you and those who work with you. Do you still have doubts?

Panchen: No.

Mao: Perhaps there is still a little. We will see in the future. You can look at the facts, look for another ten years, and see if it is real trust or false trust. Your history is different from that of the Dalai clique; there is a big difference. We have not fought a war with you; we fought two wars with the Dalai clique. The first battle was in Changdu[1], where we eliminated their main force. Soon after, the Dalai fled to Yadong. Later, an agreement[2] was signed; the Dalai was very reluctant. They sent two groups of representatives. One group was Ngapoi[3], who came from Changdu to Beijing. The other group was in Calcutta, India; Nehru[4] would not let them come, and they did not want to come either. Later, seeing that it was not going to work, they finally came. Ngapoi was persuaded by us; he is truly patriotic and cooperates with us.

The result of the first battle was the signing of the Seventeen-Point Agreement. The second battle was the quelling of the rebellion. He attacked us first, wanting to drive us out, forcing us into a corner, so we had no choice but to quell the rebellion. Before that, we wanted to persuade him, and at the same time, we knew about his relationship with India. At that time, from your perspective, you might have felt that we trusted the Dalai more than we trusted you, such as the decisions not to fire the first shot and not to carry out reforms for six years. In your position, you would have thought that way. We considered that among the 1.2 million people at the time, the vast majority believed in the Dalai. In Ü-Tsang, Changdu, Kangqu[1], Ngari, as well as parts of Qinghai and Gansu, the masses had great superstition about him. Therefore, we would under no circumstances fire the first shot. Without going through a process, there was no way; the masses could not understand that we had done everything humanly possible. They first attacked us in Kangqu, and later in Lhasa, several thousand people attacked us first. Only then did we shift from a passive to an active position, only then did we quell the rebellion, and only then could we explain to the masses that we had done everything humanly possible. The Dalai's conspiracy to rebel began after he returned from Beijing in 1955. After he returned from India in early 1957, he made arrangements for two years until 1958.

You participated in this second battle, fighting in cooperation with us.

The fifth issue is when to establish the autonomous region. To change from the preparatory committee to a formal local autonomous region government, it won't be possible this year. I think it will be next year or the year after. The main issue is the election. For now, let's first create an election law, create a set of regulations. Actively prepare for the election now, preparing to hold the All-Tibet People's Congress next year, or the year after at the latest. The task of this congress is to decide on the principles and policies for the work of the autonomous region, including policies in politics, economy, culture and education, and other aspects, to elect the government of the autonomous region, and to pass an autonomous region ordinance, which is the basic law there.

When you go back, you will prepare for this. First, establish the county and township level people's governments through elections, and then it will be easy to elect the people's representatives for the autonomous region. Is this good?

Panchen: Good.

Mao: Sixth, there is another issue, which is that the relationship between the Tibet Work Committee and you needs to be made closer. I have already spoken with Representative Zhang[2] and also with a deputy secretary of the Work Committee, Comrade Guo Xilan. The Work Committee has also had shortcomings in the past. When they discussed matters with you, were you that satisfied? (To Zhang Jingwu: The entire situation of Tibet's politics, economy, culture, education, and religion should be made fully known to him.) I'll tell you a method: whatever dissatisfaction you have, whatever opinions and problems you have, just tell them. I hear you have this style, which is very good. It's not good if they don't know what you are thinking. The Work Committee reports to us that they are satisfied with you, feeling that you speak the truth. Sometimes you can hold a forum with them, vent your grievances, and once both sides talk, things will be cleared up.

As for matters in Ü-Tsang and Changdu, you did not manage them in the past, and it was not easy to manage them before the quelling of the rebellion. Now I advise you to be concerned about matters in these two areas, to have more contact with the upper strata and the laboring people in these two areas, to understand the situation more. In this way, after a number of years, your prestige can be established. In the nine years since you entered Tibet, for seven years you did not manage Ü-Tsang and Changdu. You only started managing them from 1959. In the future, you should connect with them and familiarize yourself with the situation.

The comrades present and I all have this experience: it's not that the people trusted us from the very beginning. For a very long time, they did not trust us. The cadres were also watching, to see if we were doing bad things or good things. Through our work, everyone felt that we served the people quite well, and slowly they came to trust and choose us. We are old, you are young, only in your twenties, very promising, like the morning sun. We are the afternoon sun. Before we go to see God, we still have things to do, to help you do some things. In an opera, you need the old male role, but the young male role is always much more active than the old one.

I am very happy now that Tibet has several thousand young cadres, with an average age of only about twenty. This is a good thing, a very good thing. Among the Tibetan people, there must not only be administrative cadres, but also cadres in culture and education, medical care, religion, and other fields, and moreover, there must also be scientific and technical cadres. In the future, as things gradually develop, there will be a middle school in every prefecture and primary schools in every county. Han people must learn Tibetan, and Tibetan people must learn Chinese. There should also be Tibetans studying in the universities here. Tibetans must have talented people in all fields, such as flying airplanes, running factories, driving cars, geology, and meteorology.

It is the same for all brother nationalities. First, the Han people help, and slowly, the talented people of the nationality itself emerge.

Panchen: The issue of training Tibetan cadres is very important, but Tibet's population is too small. In the future, even more Han cadres will be needed to go and help.

The Influence of the Japanese People's Struggle is Very Far-Reaching[1]
(January 24, 1961)

Mao Zedong (hereafter Mao): Will you be staying in China for a few more days? I am happy whenever I see Japanese friends. We express our condolences on the death of Mr. Asanuma[2].

Kuroda Hisao (hereafter Kuroda): Mr. Asanuma came to China as the head of the Socialist Party delegation and gave a very good speech, saying that U.S. imperialism is the common enemy of the Chinese and Japanese peoples. We inherit the spirit of Asanuma and will continue to carry it forward.

Mao: Mr. Asanuma grasped the essence of the relationship between Japan and the United States, and also grasped the essence of the problems of the various nationalities in China, as well as in Asia, Africa, Latin America, and even Europe and North America's Canada. At that time, I told Mr. Asanuma that the number of people who agree with this viewpoint is sometimes smaller, sometimes larger, but after some time it will surely win the approval of the majority.

The United States has no way to establish its rule in various countries; it must rely on collaborators in each country. These are its allied forces, which are the most reactionary small minority in each country. In China, it is the group headed by Chiang Kai-shek. In your country, it is the Kishi Nobusuke[3] clique and the monopoly capital groups.

Kuroda: Last year, a great movement against the "Security Treaty"[4] arose in Japan. The government representing monopoly capital stood on the opposite side from us and opposed us, using violence to pass the "Security Treaty." During this period, China held large-scale parades and rallies to support us, for which we express our gratitude.

Mao: We support each other. International struggles are always about mutual support. You are on the front line.

When Mr. Asanuma visited China the year before last, he said that U.S. imperialism is the common enemy of the Chinese and Japanese peoples. Even if a majority of people do not agree with this for a time, when people come to understand it, it will surely win the approval of the majority. One must have this confidence. After one year, that is, in 1960, such a huge change took place in Japan. The movement against the "Security Treaty" reached such a high tide and had already developed into a struggle of the entire people.

The relationship between our two countries is not normal, and trade has also stopped. When I met with the delegation led by Mr. Asanuma at East Lake in Wuhan, I said that the interruption of Sino-Japanese relations is a temporary phenomenon, and a change will occur after a period of time. In terms of trade, a change has already begun to occur; in terms of politics, it is not yet certain. Politics has two aspects. The Chinese people and the majority of the Japanese people have always been friendly, and friendly relations have even developed since the war. It is just that the relationship with the Liberal Democratic Party government, with monopoly capital, is not yet established; we still have to wait. We must distinguish between the relationship with the Japanese people and the relationship with the Japanese government; the two are different. The relationship with the Japanese government is also not uniform; there are the so-called mainstream and anti-mainstream factions, and they are not completely identical. Matsumura[1], Miki[2], Takasaki[3], Kono...