Chairman: A very warm welcome to you. I am very happy about the heroic struggle of the Japanese people. Your struggle is a support to China and to the people of the world. The object of your struggle is the world's largest imperialism. This country once controlled China, aided Jiang Jieshi in fighting the civil war, and now occupies our Taiwan. It has military bases in Japan, the Philippines, South Korea, and Taiwan. In reality, it also occupies South Vietnam. I won't even mention the many countries west of Pakistan. This is our common enemy. Last year, when the leader of the Japan Socialist Party, Asanuma Inejirō, visited China, he and Zhang Xiruo issued a joint statement saying that U.S. imperialism is the common enemy of China and Japan. At the time, some people thought this statement was too extreme. Now, the struggle of the Japanese people has greatly surpassed this statement from last year. The scope and scale of the struggle were unimaginable last year. This struggle erupted from the opposition to the "Security Treaty." Its fundamental nature is opposing U.S. imperialism and its running dog Kishi Nobusuke, demanding national independence and democracy, because the treaty was forcibly passed in the House of Representatives by the Japanese reactionaries. That is to say, the nature of the Japanese revolution is a national democratic revolution. The workers' strikes are not raising economic slogans, but all are raising political slogans, which is rare in the world. And senior intellectuals are participating. For example, on the third day after the "June 15" incident, the president of the University of Tokyo, Kaya Seiji, convened a university-wide assembly and led everyone to demonstrate in the streets. The victim was a student at the University of Tokyo named Kamba Michiko, who is now famous throughout the world. Her father is Kamba Toshio, a professor of law at Chuo University. It seems that several thousand professors have organized, women have also caught up, and even monks and the religious circles have come out. The workers and students are the main force. Tomorrow there will be an even larger-scale strike.

Do you have any opinions on what is happening in your country?

Noma Hiroshi (Head of Delegation): I am very moved to be able to meet Chairman Mao today. We arrived in Beijing on January 4th. When we issued a statement at the Beijing railway station, we said: We will participate in the struggle of the Japanese people from Beijing. That evening and the next morning, we were very moved to hear the news that 5.4 million people in Japan had participated in a general strike. This shows that the Japanese people's struggle for independence is heading down a new path. In Japan, at the very beginning, the anti-imperialist nature of the struggle was not yet clear. After the "June 15" incident, the Japanese people prevented Eisenhower's visit to Japan and consciously realized that the struggle is anti-American. The Japanese nation's anti-American forces have united. The struggle will not stop; it will continue to advance.

Chairman: Good! This makes things easier. Japan has military bases. In the past, there was nothing to be done about it, which was frustrating, and we couldn't go and fight it. Now you, the Japanese people, have come up with a good method, which is a mass struggle of the whole people. Except for U.S. imperialism and its running dogs, all other forces must be united to oppose imperialism and its running dogs. In the past, China basically used this method as well. China also had armed struggle in the past. But during the "May Fourth" Movement, there was no armed struggle. 1919 was also about opposing the treaty of the Paris Peace Conference. This was after the First World War, and at that time, the Communist Party of China did not yet exist.

Two years later, in 1921, the Party was born. In the beginning, the number of people was very small, just a few dozen people, a Marxist-Leninist group. Later there was the Northern Expedition War in 1926. At that time, we cooperated with the Kuomintang. You are all very clear about this period of history. In 1927, the Northern Expedition reached the Yangtze River area. Jiang Jieshi turned against the communists, forcing us to fight a civil war. We were not prepared and were suddenly attacked because there was a right-wing opportunist, Chen Duxiu, within the Party. China is a big country. We fought a civil war for ten years. Later, we fought a war against the Japanese warlords and cooperated with Jiang Jieshi again. I have spoken about this period with many Japanese friends. Some of them said that Japan's invasion of China was not good. I said that invasion is of course not good, but one cannot only look at this bad side. I said that Japan did us a great favor in China. If Japan had not occupied half of China, the Chinese people would not have awakened. On this point, we should thank the Japanese "Imperial Army." But you have no burden now, because you have no colonies. On the contrary, you have become a colony and a semi-colony. From the point of having military bases, you are a colony. But you still have an independent government, and this government is dominated by the United States. In this sense, you are also a semi-colony. You don't owe any debts now; on the contrary, foreigners owe you debts. This foreigner is the United States, not Britain or France. So the Japanese people are now enraged. I have talked with many Japanese friends, and I do not believe that a great nation like Japan will be ruled by others for long. Who is educating the Japanese people now? It is the Americans who are your teachers by negative example, and they are also our teachers by negative example. After 1945, China's affairs had nothing to do with you. The one who bullied China and helped Jiang Jieshi fight the civil war was U.S. imperialism, not Japan. So the target of our hatred has shifted. It is not Japan, but has shifted to U.S. imperialism. On the contrary, there is a possibility for cooperation between our two great nations, and there is also a necessity for it, because both are oppressed by U.S. imperialism and have a common standpoint. The one oppressing the Chinese and Japanese peoples now is the United States. Besides the United States, who else is there? Is it Britain? It used to be, but later the United States replaced Britain. France also used to have spheres of influence in China, but they were gone by the beginning of the Second World War. The United States replaced Britain and France.

Your history of being oppressed is not long; ours is very long, over a hundred years. But your industry, economy, and culture are more developed than our China. We are a backward country. You can still see the vestiges of backwardness now. The number of people with higher education in our country, as a proportion of the population, is smaller than yours. Have you universalized middle school education? (Delegation member Kamei Katsuichirō says: It has been so since after the war; junior high school education has been universalized.) We have not yet. It will take a few more years to catch up with you. Of course, the social systems are different. Do you have the problem of a national bourgeoisie, that is, a bourgeois stratum, apart from the big capitalists, that has few or no ties to foreign capital? (Noma and Kamei say: Yes.) You must unite with this stratum. If you are interested, you can find some capitalists in Shanghai to talk with.

Noma: This issue has been studied in Japan. Yes, we have, we are interested, and would very much like to talk with capitalists.

Chairman: Comrade Ke Qingshi is the mayor of Shanghai, and also the First Secretary of the Shanghai Municipal Party Committee and a member of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee. You can find him if you need anything.

Ke Qingshi: I can organize this conversation.

Chairman: (After asking everyone's age) You are all younger than me. Most things in the world are done by people who are young, relatively unknown, of lower status, and with less wealth. For example, Watt, the inventor of the steam engine in Britain, was from a working-class background. You can surely find many such examples. In 1958, when we held a Party congress, we talked about this matter. Later, an investigation was conducted to find out what kind of people were responsible for inventions and creations worldwide within the last three hundred years. The compiled results showed that seventy percent were unknown, young, of lower status, and relatively poor. I don't know what the situation is like in your Japan. Could it be that all good things are done by old men and high officials? I don't believe it. The ones who surrounded Hagerty and drove out Eisenhower were also those young people. I saw a short article written by Takeuchi in the *China Youth Daily*. It was very well written. The Youth Daily asked you to write it, didn't they?

Takeuchi: (In Chinese) I usually like to read Chairman Mao's articles. Today, I am very honored to receive the teacher's praise.

Chairman: You will be staying in China for a while longer, won't you?

Noma: We have been in China for twenty-two days already. There are about ten days left.

Saionji: I will have to stay for a few more years.

Chairman: You can't go back?

Saionji: Because I have said many bad things about Kishi Nobusuke, I'm afraid I won't be able to come back if I go back.

Chairman: You can go back after Kishi Nobusuke falls.

Saionji: After Kishi falls, there will be a second Kishi. In Beijing, I can also participate in the struggle of the Japanese people.

Chairman: We are always with you, always with the Japanese people who demand independence, democracy, and freedom. We are not with Kishi Nobusuke. Things in the world are changing, and changing particularly fast. For example, four or five years ago, I met many Japanese friends. Whenever the subject of the United States was mentioned, they would not say a word. I think at that time, our Japanese friends were thinking about the issue. They listened to what we said, they did not object, were willing to listen, and did not defend the United States. Now the situation has changed, because the Japanese people have started to act all over Japan, writing slogans to oppose the "Security Treaty," demanding the removal of military bases and the withdrawal of U-2 aircraft, and "Yankee, go home." The people of Okinawa have risen up to question the Americans to their faces: "How much longer are you going to occupy us?" Everyone has started talking and acting. People from all strata in Japan have taken action, several million of them. This was unimaginable four or five years ago. I think there is hope for Japan's independence and freedom. If the U.S. military bases are removed and the "Security Treaty" is abolished, Japan's permanent peace will be guaranteed, and Asian peace will also be guaranteed. Congratulations on the victories you have achieved.

Victory is achieved step by step. The consciousness of the masses is also raised step by step, including us; we also became conscious step by step. I myself am the same. I did not know about Marxism-Leninism when I was in middle school. My studies had two stages. First, I studied in a private old-style school, which was the Confucian set of things, feudalism. Later, I entered a school and studied capitalism, and I believed in Kant's philosophy. Later, objective circumstances forced me and the people around me to organize a communist group and study Marxism-Leninism. Premier Zhou was also like this. Because at that time, for one, we had no money to go to university, and for another, we couldn't continue our studies. The secondary normal school I attended was to prepare to be a teacher. I worked as a primary school teacher and also as a principal. At that time, my whole heart was set on being a teacher; I had no thought of becoming a communist. Later, I opposed the warlords and was influenced by *New Youth*. *New Youth* was not a communist magazine at the beginning. Later, I couldn't continue as a teacher, which forced me to get involved in the student movement and the workers' movement. It was then that the Communist Party began to exist. This was in 1919, 1920, 1921. Premier Zhou also couldn't continue his studies. He went to Japan for a year, came back and got involved in the "May Fourth" Movement. The warlords wanted to arrest him, so he went to France for a work-study program, initially writing articles for a newspaper (Shen Bao), and later got involved in a communist group. After the First World War, France needed to restore its industry and had few people, so it recruited many Chinese laborers to help restore its industry. After the failure of the Great Revolution in 1927, many more people went to Moscow to study at Sun Yat-sen University. China succeeded only after traversing many tortuous paths.

In 1840, the Opium War occurred. From 1863 to 1875, the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, which lasted thirteen years, failed. In 1898, the Wuxu Reform, in which Kang Youwei and Liang Qichao participated, also failed. Afterwards, many people, ten or twenty thousand, fled to Japan. In 1906, the Tongmenghui led by Sun Yat-sen was founded in Japan. The Xinhai Revolution of 1911 also failed. Yuan Shikai wanted to become emperor, followed by a melee of warlords. Then came the "May Fourth" Movement in 1919, the founding of the Party in 1921, the "February 7th" General Strike in 1923, and the "May 30th" Incident in 1925, opposing British imperialism. In 1924, the Kuomintang and the Communist Party cooperated and held a congress in Guangzhou. In 1926, the Northern Expedition. In 1927, Jiang Jieshi's betrayal. We went underground and started guerrilla warfare. From 1927 to 1937, to 1948, 1949, we fought for a total of twenty-two years, including the Agrarian Revolution, the War of Resistance Against Japan, and the War of Liberation. At this time, the foreign target changed. In the past, it was Japanese imperialism; now it became U.S. imperialism and its running dog Jiang Jieshi. It came to a close in 1949. From the founding of New China until last year was ten years. In these ten years, what we did was socialist revolution and socialist construction, which is what you see now.

There have been some achievements in these ten years, but the time is short, so the achievements are not many. Take steel, for example. Last year, it was only ××.×× million tons. Yours was over ××.×× million tons. Other industries have also developed some, but the per capita average is very low, much worse than yours.

I have told you so much history, all of which I have personally experienced, to show that the Chinese people became conscious step by step. People of our generation also became conscious step by step. You will also become conscious step by step. Just now I said that some Japanese people did not dare to speak of U.S. imperialism four or five years ago, but last year Asanuma dared to issue a joint statement with Zhang Xiruo, saying that U.S. imperialism is the common enemy of the Chinese and Japanese peoples. A year later, the Japanese people have launched such a large-scale struggle against the "Security Treaty." It should be said that the progress is very fast. You will probably do it faster than we did. We took over a hundred years, from 1840 to 1949, a total of one hundred and nine years. Now, the "Security Treaty" has not yet been opposed and defeated; what was defeated was Eisenhower's visit to Japan. The "Security Treaty" still exists, but it will be defeated. It may still take some time, and it's hard to say which year or month it can be defeated, but it will be defeated eventually. Of course, I am not advocating that you go to war with the United States. It is possible to achieve the goal without adopting the method of war. There is no precedent for this elsewhere; perhaps you will create a precedent. There are precedents, too. For example, one hundred and eighty years ago, America was a British colony. Washington drove the British out; he adopted the method of war. India's independence did not involve war; the British allowed India's independence. You can find a suitable method. It seems you have already found a method, which is the current one. Establishing an organization like the "National Council Against the Security Treaty," the struggle is led and organized. This organization includes more than a hundred groups. We in China did not have something like this in the past.

Premier: China did not have such an organization in the past. China had a Federation of All Circles, but it collapsed after a short while. You have carried out eighteen unified actions.

Chairman: Ten days from now, you will return to Japan, and the struggle in Japan will still be continuing. Those of you who have not been to China before may not be familiar with it. As you stay longer, you will become familiar. You will know that the Chinese people are friendly to you.

Noma: We understand this point very well. The entire delegation is very grateful.

Chairman: We support each other and learn from each other, learning from each other's strengths. Regarding the dissemination of Marxism-Leninism, you were earlier than us. We first obtained it from Japan. You have a professor in Japan named Kawakami Hajime. His political economy is still one of our reference books today. Kawakami said that his Marxist political economy was revised every year, revised many times. Is this person no longer alive?

Noma: He died after ×× returned from China. He also wrote a poem to welcome ×× back to Japan.

Chairman: Do you have any other opinions?

Noma: I am very grateful for having listened to your beneficial talk. I have one question, may I ask it?

Chairman: You may.

Noma: I have repeatedly read Chairman Mao's works, especially the philosophical works. Does Chairman Mao still intend to write new philosophical works?

Chairman: I don't have time. If I had time, I would like to write a little. "On Contradiction" is already very old. I would like to summarize the experience of the Chinese revolution since then.

Noma: I hope you will complete another philosophical work.

Chairman: My energy is not what it used to be. I am one year younger than ××. Last October, during the National Day, I asked him. He was born in 1892, and I was born in 1893.

Noma: But one cannot see that Chairman Mao is that old. You look as young as we are. The only difference is that you are famous in the world.

Chairman: I am old, so my creativity has also diminished. This is a law of nature. Let's end our talk here for today.