Interview with Delegation of Japanese Army Veterans
(September 4, 1956)

Source: Doi Akio, “Motakuto shuseki to-no kaidan-ki” in Tairiku mondai kenkyu
(Continental Problems Studies) (12 Dec. 1956), pp. 1–12. Available English
Translations: Quotation in Kyodo (Tokyo) (Sept. 6, 1956), noon edition; Quotation
in FBIS, Daily Report (Sept. 6, 1956), HHH1.

According to the Kyodo source, Mao had a one-hour interview on Sept. 4, 1956, with a
visiting delegation of Japanese army veterans. The mission consisted of fifteen members, all
veterans of the Sino-Japanese War of the 1930s and 1940s, and was headed by Endo Saburo.
According to Doi’s records, the interview took place at Qinzhengdian (a conference and
audience chamber that had been a throne room in the old palace). Mao was accompanied
by Liao Chengzhi, Zhao Anbo, Zhang Xiruo (chairman of the Chinese Association of
Diplomatic Studies), Qiao Guanhua, Xie Nanguang, and Xu Xiangqian.
We have included in this translation parts of the conversation contributed by the
Japanese visitors. These sections are presented in parentheses.

We welcome our Japanese friends sincerely. Please observe carefully that we
welcome you with our whole heart. [Our] relationship will improve through
discussion. Let us remedy the past events and change our relationship into a friendly
one.1 You stated that the number of delegates shrank owing to [certain] restrictions,
and the visit was delayed.2 It does not matter if you have come late, or if fewer
came. You yourselves, and your government, should be the judge of who should

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come. If the government thought that it is too early [for you to come], then it would
have been all right if you had come at a later time. If the number [of delegates] had
been too large, fewer could have come. [In some cases,] alternate members could
have come. The exchange of visitors will become more frequent in the future. The
traffic of people will become more extensive and freer. Whatever questions you
have, please raise them freely.
Let us forget all about the past. Let us think of the future, and of the present. If
we cannot make you our friends, we’ll be disappointed. We are Asians. There are
numerous countries in Asia and Africa, but few big nations.
Japan is a great country in Asia. Compared to any other state, it has a more
advanced economy and culture. I once told the following to a delegate [from
Japan] who visited China: In talking about learning, we [the Chinese] must learn
first from you. Gratitude should be mutually exchanged. We appreciate the role
that Japan has played. We hope that you will play larger and more varied roles
in the future. In the past, world opinion condemned you, as you were holding
colonies at the time. The situation, however, has changed completely since the
war. The world has changed, and Japan and China have changed as well. You
no longer have any colonies. Instead, Japan has become a semi-independent
country lacking complete independence.3 Under such circumstances, you have
a strong cause.
You must hold onto this cause firmly. Now you have the right to criticize other
countries that have colonies. We hope that you will maintain the present status of
having no colonies, and also that you will win complete independence. We hope
also that your nation becomes prosperous and strong and replaces its passive
position [in the world] with an autonomous one.
The San Francisco Treaty has entrapped you into a passive position. You need
friends in order to correct the present position. I will offer you my service, if you
wish, by becoming Japan’s chief of staff.
We are standing on the common ground of anti-imperialism. Yours is not an
imperialist nation. You and we are under the oppression of a single imperialist
state—the United States, to be more specific. There are no imperialists in . . . [copy
not legible]. Yet Taiwan is occupied by imperialists, and consequently our nation
cannot join the United Nations. They call us the invaders and are enforcing an
economic embargo against us.
As you have seen, we have just begun our [national] construction. It would
take several decades [to complete]. We need time, a peaceful environment,
friendship, and the assistance of other countries. We hope to improve our
relationship with Japan and turn it into a friendly one. You may need friends,
too. You should make any nation your friend, as long as they can help you in
your [effort toward] independence, regardless of their whereabouts—be it in
Europe, Asia, Africa, or America. We hope to become one of them. We
welcome even those who exchanged blows with us in the past, or those who
denounced communism. You may continue your work after you return. You
may visit us again even after you speak ill of us. Such traffic of people over a
long period of time will result in much greater understanding [than can other-


wise be achieved]. How long are you staying?

(Endo: Ten more days.)

Gentlemen, please come again. You can come either as individuals, or as a
group. The government leaders will be welcomed, too. Were you with the navy,
Mr. Kanazawa? You had a powerful navy. We, being poor, have only a small naval
force.

(Kanazawa: Japan now builds merchant ships and exports them. In real terms,
shipbuilding occupies the top position in Japan's trade.)

What is the total tonnage of ships you have today? What was the tonnage at the
peak of the war?

(Kanazawa: It is about 3 million tons today. The highest during the war was about
6 million tons.)

In any case, it is difficult to build a navy.

(Kanazawa: To improve the quality of a navy, the staff on board must be treated
well and with affection.)

Our army and navy are in a mutually supplementary relationship. We would
like to learn from Japan in the area of the shipbuilding industry. What do you do,
Mr. Doi?

(Doi: I have founded and have been managing Tairoku Mondai Kenkyujyo [Insti-tute of Continental Studies], which conducts research on the Soviet Union and your
country in the fields of international politics and military affairs. I have been to the
Soviet Union three times in the past, but I still have some questions about
communism that are beyond my comprehension. So this time I came to your
country.)

We have yet to establish a specialized institute concerning Japan. You are
studying us very well. We know very little about Japan. Our study and understanding are not sufficient.

(Doi: Since our institute is very small, the chairman may not have noticed it. I would
like to visit and study your country more often. I would like you to help me in my
China studies.)

China is a country worth studying. What do you do, Mr. Horige?

(Horige: I am a critic on military affairs, trying to enlighten the [Japanese] people.)

JULY—SEPTEMBER 1956 / 123
[Speaking to all]: Do you have anything else to discuss?

(Endo: You said that you are hoping for a friendly relationship with Japan. We
became involved in fighting [each other] too hastily in the past. This time we hope
to achieve a friendly relationship with equal speed.)

Our two nations face a common enemy. This enemy is big and powerful. I would
like to make this point clear to you. The United States, the United Kingdom, and
France occupy vast territories in the world. There are a great many people. Asia,
Africa, Latin America, and the better part of Europe are controlled by these states.
Such a statement can be made not only by us [the Chinese], but also by the Japanese
as well. You have no debts to pay to others. Others owe you some debts. On the
economic, cultural, and other fronts, both of our nations need to be reconstructed.
We have the political capital in our hands, and it is plentiful. Besides, we do not
borrow others’ capital. In short [the nations of] Asia, Africa, and Latin America
can form a single united front. I am not instigating wars, I am talking reason and
theory. We are simply demanding that everything that they have borrowed be
returned.

(Endo: Mr. Higashikuni could not come.4 We apologize for having raised serious
troubles in China in the past. I convey messages from Mr. Higashikuni and Mr.
Katayama to you that they believe that without there being friendship between
China and Japan, there would be no peace in Asia or in the world, and that they are
working toward Sino-Japanese friendship.)

Please convey to Mr. Higashikuni my words of gratitude. There is nothing to be
discussed further about the first point [i.e., the Sino-Japanese War], as it is a matter
of the past. On the second point, I agree with them completely. It is impossible to
obtain peace in Asia without Sino-Japanese friendship. I have received a letter from
Mr. Katayama. Please convey my greetings to him. Anything else [to talk about]?

(Doi: I have one request. The Japanese are now engaged in negotiations with the
Soviet Union over our diplomatic relationship. We are somewhat anxious about
this. I wonder if the great China could undertake the task of being a mediator for
the Russo-Japanese talks? It is easy for the powerful Soviet Union to be oppressive
toward a much too small and defeated Japan. Yet the signing of a peace treaty under
oppression will not make the Japanese truly friendly toward the Soviet Union. It
will result only in our holding distrust and anxiety toward the Russians. This will
be unfortunate for your country as well. Your country and the Soviet Union are
bound to one another as comrades, as you have often stated. Thus this [ill
relationship between Japan and the Soviet Union] will be disadvantageous to your
country. I also believe it would benefit your country if you could mediate between
the two, so that the peoples of Japan and the Soviet Union can sign the peace treaty
under acceptable conditions.)

Your understanding of the Soviet Union is slightly different from ours. The
distance between China and the Soviet Union is much closer than that between
Japan and the Soviet Union. If the Soviet Union wishes to become oppressive, they


would do so toward us first, before they oppress Japan. Although there is a long
border between China and Russia, no pressure is felt. As you gradually come to
understand [the Russians], you may be able to eliminate the sense of threat. By the
way, is there any possibility now for the normalization of relations between your
country and ours?

(Doi: One cannot say that there is no possibility. As Prime Minister [sic] Zhou Enlai
had stated, it would become possible after obstacles have been removed.)5

Is it the problem of the Kuomintang?

(Endo: The Kuomintang and the United States are the problems.)

We do not wish to make haste. The sooner the better, but please act on it
whenever you believe the time is right. What is the thinking of Mr. Hatoyama on
this issue?6

(Endo: He wishes to restore diplomatic relations, but there is some opposition
within the government. It is difficult to carry it out right now. I believe the problem
can be solved as a result of popular demand.)

(Doi: There is anxiety in Japan about the disposition of the Communists. Without
resolving this, difficulties [for normalization] will remain.)

I can understand, thinking in your terms, that you are worried about the fact that
the communist propaganda of the Soviet Union and China is reaching Japan. Even
before the restoration of diplomatic relations, we would not engage in activities
that are advantageous only to one side, and harmful to the other. We do not
propagate communism [in Japan]. Liao Chengzhi, Guo Moruo, and Mei Lanfang7
have led delegations to Japan, but they have engaged in activities that were only
beneficial to you.

(Doi: Even though you do not do it, the radicals of the Japan Communist Party and
the Socialist Party are taking advantage of your country['s name] in trying to take
over the government. We, the Japanese, like you, wish for the welfare of the masses.
We wish to follow the middle road by adopting the merits of both communism and
capitalism. Please leave Japan alone, and watch how it goes. Instead of intervening
[in Japanese affairs], please construct the Asian form of socialism at an early date,
as you seem to be pursuing that goal, and show us the model. You may be thinking
of a communist regime being established in Japan, but the majority of the Japanese
people, including myself, are hoping to take the third road.)

I will not intervene no matter what ideas you profess. It is your business. Can
you see His Majesty, the Emperor?

(Endo: Yes, we can.)

Please convey my greetings to His Majesty. He is a biologist, isn't he? How old
is he? He seems to take field trips often. We respect Laos and Cambodia, which
are also monarchical states. Without such respect, we cannot become friends. We

JULY—SEPTEMBER 1956 / 125
pay our respect to His Majesty, the Emperor of Japan. I wish for the welfare of the
Japanese people, and for the health of His Majesty.

Notes

1. Mao is referring to the war between China and Japan during the 1930s and 1940s
during which the Japanese army invaded China and occupied a large portion of its territory.
This history serves as an important background to this conversation.
2. This suggests that there were some last minute complications as to the composition
of the Japanese delegation before the tour left Japan. The Japanese newspaper articles
reporting the visit made no reference to this situation.
3. The PRC considered Japan, under the terms of the San Francisco Peace Treaty of 1949
and the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty, as only “semi-independent.” The treaties put Japan
unmistakably into the anticommunist camp headed by the United States in the cold war
period. Both treaties were signed on September 8, 1949. The San Francisco Treaty, a peace
treaty, deprived Japan of its overseas possessions but levied no reparations on Japan for its
wartime aggression. The Mutual Security Treaty permitted U.S. troops to remain indefinitely
in Japan and required Japan not to allow any other nation to have bases and military authority
in Japan without prior U.S. consent.
4. This probably refers to Higashikuni Naruhiko, a former member of the Japanese
imperial family. He became an army general in 1933 and served briefly as Japan’s prime
minister from August to October 1945.
5. This may be referring to something that Zhou Enlai said when he met with this
delegation on August 19. The Japanese texts here employed a term that technically translates
as “prime minister.” Zhou’s official title is premier of the State Council of the PRC.
6. Hatoyama Ichiro became interim prime minister of Japan on December 9, 1954, and
on the victory of his government in the spring elections of the following year, he became
prime minister on February 27, 1955.
7. Liao Chengzhi (b. 1908) was, in the late 1940s and after 1949, a prominent figure in
the government of the PRC, especially as a leader and organizer of mass organizations. He
was a member of the Preparatory Committee of the First Session of the CPPCC, a member
of the Board of the Chinese People’s Institute of Foreign Affairs, and a vice-chairman and
secretary general of the China Peace Committee. Above all, Liao’s function in the PRC has
been as a principal liaison official vis-à-vis Japan, a role for which he was particularly suited
by virtue of his fluency in Japanese and the rich experience he had as a student for many
years in Japan. Liao played such a key role in Sino-Japanese relations (during the long period
in which there was no official diplomatic relations between the two countries)—he was
China’s chief negotiator in 1953, under the aegis of the Chinese Red Cross Society, for the
repatriation of Japanese nationals detained since the beginning of the war in China, and in
that capacity visited Japan in October–November 1954—that when a Chinese delegate’s
office, serving as a surrogate diplomatic mission, was set up in Tokyo in 1962, it was known
as the “Liao Chengzhi Office.” Guo Moruo, well known also as a Chinese writer,
philosopher, and historian, was chairman at one time of the Chinese Peace Committee. He
was a vice-chairman of the CPPCC, a member of the Board of Directors of the Chinese
People’s Association for Cultural Relations with Foreign Countries established in May 1954. He led the Chinese
delegation to the Asian Countries Conference in April 1955 in New Delhi. We have not
discovered information regarding the trip to Japan referred to by Mao here. For information
on Mei Lanfang, a veteran Beijing opera performer, see text Sept. 16–18, 1953, vol. I, note
18.

For more detailed biographical information on Liao and Guo, see D. Klein and A. Clark,
eds. (1971), I, pp. 544–550, and 458–466, respectively.