Lhalu Tsewang Dorje (hereinafter referred to as Lhalu): Over the past few years, under the leadership of Chairman Mao and the Communist Party, Tibet has genuinely achieved liberation, and we are deeply grateful. Last year, the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Erdeni [2] went to Beijing and attended the First Session of the First National People's Congress, where the constitution was formulated. After returning, they conveyed this, which increased the Tibetan people's love for the motherland and the unity among all ethnic groups, and also strengthened unity within Tibet.

Mao Zedong (hereinafter referred to as Mao): Very good. There will always be some who do not understand. Mutual understanding takes some time. What questions do you have?

Lhalu: Previously, when we heard the People's Liberation Army was coming, we were somewhat afraid. After they truly arrived, we saw that the PLA respects religious beliefs, protects lamaseries, and helps the people solve difficulties, so our concerns were dispelled.

Mao: Is that so? Isn't there still a bit of fear?

Kashö Chökyi Nyima (hereinafter referred to as Kashö): I have never been to the interior before. This time, setting out from Tibet and passing through many places, I saw scenes of thriving prosperity and realized that forever following Chairman Mao is happiness. The Tibetan people also know that Chairman Mao and the Central People's Government are like the sun in the sky. The unity of our 600 million people is precisely the result of Chairman Mao's and the Communist Party's leadership. Therefore, having the opportunity to meet Chairman Mao fills us with indescribable gratitude.

Mao: Let's talk, so everyone can understand each other. In the past, Tibetans feared Han people, but gradually they will no longer fear. Today's Han people will not bully you. The constitution also states that discrimination and oppression are prohibited, and the customs and habits of all ethnic groups must be respected. The constitution stipulates that you have the right to autonomy. Therefore, each ethnic group manages its own affairs, just as the affairs of the Xinjiang Uyghurs are managed by themselves. Han people can only help, not manage on their behalf. Some of you have been to Inner Mongolia; the affairs there are managed by the Mongols themselves. The Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama have also been to Yanbian; the affairs there are managed by the Koreans themselves. In short, the affairs of all ethnic groups practicing regional autonomy are managed by those ethnic groups themselves. Some people fear reform. Actually, after the interior underwent reform, it did not turn out badly.

Kashö: During the Kuomintang's rule in Xinjiang, the people's lives were very hard. The changes after liberation almost make those who knew the old Xinjiang disbelieve. Now that the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region has been established, the future prospects are infinitely beautiful.

Mao: Establishing autonomous regions is good.

Kashö: Regarding reform, the advancement of the interior was also achieved through reform. Therefore, personally, I have no concerns. Before Tibet's liberation, there was not even a single primary school. The people were oppressed by imperialism, and their cultural level was low, so they could not fully understand some issues, hence some concerns. But under Chairman Mao's leadership, these will be eliminated.

Mao: Reform requires the people's consent. If the people are afraid, then wait. After reform, will you aristocrats fear having no food to eat?

Lhalu: The sizes of aristocratic estates vary. My estate collects three to four thousand *khe* [1] of rent annually (approximately 100,000 *jin*). I believe reform will be good, but what exactly will happen after transitioning to socialism, I still cannot imagine right now.

Mao: Do not rush into socialism now. Everyone does not understand and is afraid, so do not force things. Tibet's affairs are for you to manage. You Tibetans decide what to do and how to do it. We will not do what you do not approve of.

Kashö: After the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Erdeni returned, they conveyed the State Council's decision on establishing the Preparatory Committee for the Tibet Autonomous Region. Both monastic and lay people expressed support and gratitude. The Tibetan people universally have religious beliefs. Because the PLA has implemented policies of ethnic equality and freedom of religious belief, and does not take a single needle or thread from the people, many of the Tibetan people's past suspicions have been dispelled, and unity between the Tibetan people and the PLA has improved.

Mao: Do not be afraid. Among Han people, there are also those who believe in Buddhism. After land reform, some believed, and after socialism is established, some will still believe. The government does not interfere with religious belief, nor can it arbitrarily abolish it. Your future reforms cannot leap directly into socialism; they must proceed in several steps. After reform, aristocrats and lamas will still live lives comparable to before. Whether to reform is your own affair; you discuss it. After reform, the lives of aristocrats and lamas will remain as before and cannot be worsened. All this is for you to decide. If you do not want reform, it still cannot happen. You can go to Shanghai and have a look. There is a big capitalist there named Rong Yiren, an aristocrat among us Han people. He is now preparing to engage in socialism. You can go and talk with him.

Sampho Tengzin Döndrup: The lives of Tibetan peasants are the worst.

Mao: You believe in Buddhism. Sakyamuni was originally also an aristocrat, a prince, but he carried out reforms together with the people and won the people's support, so the people commemorate him. You can learn from Sakyamuni's approach, and your lives may even be a bit better than Sakyamuni's, because in Sakyamuni's time, there was no Communist Party and no People's Government.

Kashö: From Urumqi to Beijing, based on what I have heard and seen, I have thought a bit about Tibet's future. I think, as long as we follow Chairman Mao, life will be better than before, and future generations will be even better off than us.

Mao: Your thinking is not bad. Take it slowly. Previously, many people were uneasy. It is good once they think things through a bit more.

Kashö: This confidence is not mine alone. The confidence of the Tibetan people is strengthening day by day. This comes from the People's Liberation Army. The Tibetan people call the PLA the "New Han people."

Mao: Good. You aristocrats should not be so panicked. Among those present here, there are Communist Party members and non-Party members, Han people and minority nationalities. Ulanhu [2] is a minority nationality and also a Communist Party member; he was formerly an aristocrat too. Vice Chairwoman Soong [3], Vice Chairman Li Jishen [4], and Vice Chairman Chen Shutong [1] also come from aristocratic backgrounds. There are also aristocrats among the Han people; we just don't call them aristocrats but capitalists. We aristocrats sitting here now live in houses and lead lives that are no worse than those of Tibetan aristocrats, and no worse than their own previous lives, right?

Lhalu: It is not panic. Some people just do not understand, but they will gradually come to understand.

Mao: Reform requires your determination. If you do not undertake it, we will not undertake it. Only when aristocrats and lamas approve will we proceed. We cannot make the determination for you.

Ngachen Dinggye: Primary schools have been established in Lhasa, and lamas in the monasteries fear there will be no one to become lamas in the future. We now request that religious schools be established in Lhasa and Shigatse, just like the Lhasa Primary School.

Mao: This can be considered. Let the Nationalities Affairs Commission study it and then handle it through the Preparatory Committee for the Tibet Autonomous Region in the future.

Kashö: When the primary school was established in Lhasa, some people had concerns in the past, and not many attended—only about two hundred students. After some time, once everyone saw the actual situation, the number of students increased to over seven hundred. With the primary school, not only can students in Lhasa attend school, but students from the vast pastoral areas can also attend. This fully proves the greatness of the Party's ethnic policy. I saw with my own eyes that religion in Xinjiang has not been weakened. I will report this to the Dalai Lama upon my return and convey this situation to the Tibetan people.

Mao: Very good. All ethnic groups must interact with each other. When you establish the Autonomous Region Preparatory Committee [3] in April or May next year, you can also invite representatives from various ethnic groups—Uyghurs, Mongols, Hui, Zhuang, Miao, Yi, Tibetans from Qinghai, Tibetans from Sichuan, and so on—invite several dozen people to Lhasa to have a look.

Kashö: In Xinjiang, I saw the People's Liberation Army using tractors to reclaim wasteland, producing a lot of grain.

Mao: When we reach socialist society, we will produce even more things, life will be better, and all the people of the country will become "aristocrats." You can also get tractors in the future.

Lhalu: Previously, we did not understand and were somewhat afraid. After hearing the Chairman's instructions, we are no longer afraid. In the future, reform is necessary; without reform, there can be no development. To reform, we need the help of Han people.

Kashö: Tibetans' lack of foresight is a major shortcoming. Another shortcoming is planning only for oneself. In the future, we must plan for the people. After visiting the construction in Xinjiang this time, I fully believe that Tibet will develop in the future.

Mao: Tibet has made progress over the past few years, progress every year. Tibet will develop in the future. The population will grow, wealth will increase, and culture and education will also develop. Religious schools can also be established. In a few decades, Tibet's situation will undergo great changes. You must learn from Sakyamuni's example, think for the broad masses, and seek benefits for the entire Tibetan people. Sakyamuni led the people in reform and did not starve to death!

Tsewang Dönden: Although I am not an aristocrat, I also have an estate. I have the desire for reform.

Yöshe Pünzho: In 1951, I joined the revolutionary work at the Qamdo People's Liberation Committee and joined the Chinese Youth League. Today, having the opportunity to meet the great leader Chairman Mao, I feel this is the most glorious day of my life. In the future, I will diligently study Marxism-Leninism, lead the broad youth to participate in the construction of the motherland, and hope for the early realization of socialism.

Mao: It cannot be that rushed either.

Yöshe Pünzho: We will proceed step by step according to the Party's instructions.

Mao: What he (pointing to Yöshe Pünzho) said is not bad. He is a youth. Among those present, there are also other youths. We all came from youth; without youth, nothing can be done.

Rinchen Döndrup: In the past, Qamdo suffered exploitation and oppression under Zhao Erfeng [2], and the people were very miserable. Over the past few years, under the leadership of the Communist Party and Chairman Mao, the people of Qamdo have united very well and made great progress.

Mao: Qamdo should unite with other parts of Tibet. Ü (Front Tibet), Tsang (Rear Tibet), and Qamdo—these three areas should unite.

Lhalu: We hope to keep the photograph taken today with Chairman Mao and the various leaders as a memento. We plan to discuss other specific matters with the Central Nationalities Affairs Commission.

Mao: That is fine. You can go to various places and have a look. Go to Guangdong, see the sea, see Humen, take a boat ride. Do not think that only the mountains are good; the sea is also very good. What do you think of the sea? Han legend says there is also a king in the sea, called the Dragon King, who also lives in a palace. Vice Chairwoman Soong is from Guangdong; she is the wife of Mr. Sun Yat-sen. In your terms, Mr. Sun Yat-sen was also a great aristocrat, but he was a remarkable man, a president. You can go to Nanjing and see his mausoleum.

Kashö: When the Dalai Lama returned to Tibet and conveyed things, he particularly pointed out that following Chairman Mao and the Communist Party leads to a future. We deeply believe this.

Mao: Yes, this point can be guaranteed. We guarantee your population will develop, your wealth will develop, and your culture will develop. In the past, Zhao Erfeng went to oppress you. We are equal with you; regardless of aristocrats or women, all are completely equal.