Mao Zedong: Prime Minister U Nu can probably see that our policy is to be friendly with you. The Five Principles[1] are a great development, and more work needs to be done based on the Five Principles. We should take some steps to make the Five Principles concrete, and not let the Five Principles become an abstract principle that is just talked about and then forgotten. There are now two attitudes in the world. One is to just talk about it and be done with it; the other is to realize it concretely. Britain and the United States also say they want peaceful coexistence, but they are the type to just talk about it and be done with it. When it comes to truly wanting peaceful coexistence, they won't do it. We are not like that. We believe that the Five Principles are a long-term policy, not for temporary expediency. These Five Principles are suited to our country's situation; our country needs a long-term peaceful environment. The Five Principles are also suited to your country's situation, and suited to the situation of the vast majority of countries in Asia and Africa. For us, stability is better, not only internationally but also domestically. I know that Prime Minister U Nu has spoken with Chairman Liu Shaoqi about the domestic situation in Burma. We hope for peace within your country. As for how to achieve domestic peace specifically, that is for you to handle yourselves. It would be inappropriate for us to express an attitude on this specific issue. The question of the Communist Party is not a question of one country, but a worldwide question, because most countries have a Communist Party. Therefore, each country must handle its own problems. Within your country, there are also parties, groups, and individuals who are not friendly to us; there are also such in other countries like India and Indonesia. But it is not good for us to interfere, not good for us to tell these parties, groups, and individuals that they should not oppose us. Every country has several kinds of parties. Regarding these several kinds of parties, we cannot express opposition to certain parties and approval of others. We can only solve problems by dealing with the government of each country. I hope you can understand why we adopt this attitude.

U Nu: This is a very correct attitude. Any other attitude would be incorrect. I completely agree with the Chairman's opinion.

Mao: The people of Burma and the people of China have both seen the steps we have taken, for example, the problems solved in the Five Principles and the joint communiqué of our talks[2]. Between our two nations, two governments, and two peoples, we do not differentiate between parties, but have preliminarily solved our common problems. China also has various parties and groups. China's various parties have differences; they are not on the same level. There is a distinction between the leadership and the led. The various democratic parties of China recognize the leadership of the Communist Party of China. China also has various groups, including workers' groups and even capitalists' groups. But the Burmese government, Prime Minister U Nu, and Ambassador U Hla Maung can only treat all of China's parties equally; you cannot express satisfaction with one party and dissatisfaction with another. Otherwise, it will cause dissatisfaction among some parties. We are the same toward Burma. If we, in the name of the government, express an attitude toward any party in Burma, we will offend that party and some of the masses. Since this issue has been raised, we are willing to say that we hope for domestic peace in Burma. Prime Minister U Nu said that Burma's civil war has become a very heavy burden. I think you yourselves could see if you can talk, to see if a compromise can be reached. If this can be done, Burma can put all its energy into construction. We would be very happy to see this. As my personal suggestion, you yourselves could first talk informally, give it a try, and not block the road. It would be best to first talk informally and probingly. If you can reach an agreement, that's best. If you cannot, then set it aside for the time being, and there will be opportunities to talk again in the future. Our method with Tibet can be for your reference. We are prepared to talk with the local government of Tibet for a very long period, to consult with them. Regarding social reform in Tibet, we do not insist that it must be done now. If, after consulting with them, they say it is okay, we will do a little. If they say it is not okay, we will not do it for the time being. Of course, China's experience can only be for your reference, because the internal situations of our two countries are different. Each country should handle its own problems according to its own conditions. Here we can also talk about the question of revolution. It is very rare in history for a country to achieve victory in revolution by relying on foreign help, on the help of another country's party. The countries of Eastern Europe were occupied by the Soviet army when it was fighting Nazi Germany; otherwise, it would be impossible to achieve victory by relying on foreign help, on the export of revolution from abroad. It is in this sense that we say revolution cannot be exported. But this is not to say that a country's revolution is not influenced by foreign countries. The independence of countries like Burma, India, Indonesia, Pakistan, and Ceylon[3] was also not entirely without foreign influence. But Burma's independence was not achieved through the help of any foreign country in terms of manpower, material resources, or financial resources. We see a different situation in Guatemala in Central America. The United States interfered there, helping the opposition party organize an army in another country to invade Guatemala, while the U.S. ambassador instigated things from within Guatemala. We will never do such a thing. We will never organize an army on the Yunnan border to invade Burma, with Ambassador Yao Zhongming[4] instigating things from within Burma. Ambassador Yao will never do such a thing. If he were to do such a thing, we would certainly dismiss him immediately. Among the overseas Chinese in Burma, there are also radical elements. We advise them not to interfere in Burma's internal affairs. We educate them to obey the laws of their country of residence and not to establish contact with political parties that oppose the Burmese government by armed force. We do not organize the Communist Party among the overseas Chinese; existing branches have already been dissolved. We have done the same in Indonesia and Singapore. We instruct the overseas Chinese in Burma not to participate in Burma's domestic political activities. They may only participate in some activities permitted by the Burmese government, such as celebrations and so on, but should not participate in others. Otherwise, it would make things very awkward for us and difficult to handle. We have three million overseas Chinese in Thailand, and our policy is the same. Thailand is not friendly to us, but the reason does not lie with us. We really want to have good relations with Thailand. We are so close to Thailand; logically, we should have good relations. Foreign newspapers suspect that our establishment of a Dai Autonomous Region is for the purpose of invading Thailand, to establish some "Free Thailand." There are 300,000 Dai people in Yunnan Province, and they have organized an autonomous region[5]. There are more than seven million Zhuang people in Guangxi Province, and they have also organized an autonomous region. We have dozens more of such minority autonomous regions, for example, for the Korean and Mongol nationalities. We are also preparing to establish an autonomous region in Tibet. Our country has many types of national minorities, but their total population is less than forty million. We are not engaged in a "Free Thailand," nor do we want to invade Thailand. Such talk does not conform to the facts. We do not think this way, we are not preparing this way, and we are not acting this way. We very much want to establish diplomatic relations with Thailand, to have mutual recognition with it. If Thailand is willing, it is also qualified to set up a consulate in Kunming. Thailand says it fears our aggression, but Burma fears it too! Yet Burma's approach is to have good relations with us and to come and see whether we want to invade Burma. But Thailand is not even willing to come and see. If Thailand sets up a consulate in Kunming, they can go to our Dai Autonomous Region to have a look. I hope Prime Minister U Nu will convey our meaning to the Thai authorities.

Nu: I have already promised Premier Zhou. I will spend one night in Bangkok and will meet the Prime Minister of Thailand. I will not only tell him that the Chinese Premier has expressed a willingness to establish diplomatic relations with Thailand, but I will also further tell him that this desire of China's is sincere, a point I have discovered during this visit. I hope Prime Minister Nehru[6] will fully support my statement.

Mao: We have spoken with Prime Minister Nehru, but not in such detail, not at such length. I hope Prime Minister U Nu will relay what we have said today to Prime Minister Nehru. If the two of you talk to the Thai authorities about this matter together, so that relations like those between China and Burma can also exist between China and Thailand, we will be very happy.

Nu: I will certainly do my best.

Mao: I will now speak on the question of large and small countries. We believe that countries should not be divided into large and small. We oppose large countries having special rights, because this places large and small countries in an unequal position. Large countries are a level higher, small countries a level lower—this is the theory of imperialism. No matter how small a country is, even if its population is only a few hundred thousand or even a few tens of thousands, it should be completely equal to another country with a population of several hundred million. This is a fundamental principle, not empty talk. Since we speak of equality, large countries should not harm small countries, should not exploit small countries economically, oppress small countries politically, and should not impose their own will, policies, and ideology on small countries. Since we speak of equality, there should be mutual courtesy. A large country cannot be like the head of a feudal family, regarding other countries as its children. Mr. Attlee's[7] criticism of America's actions in Guatemala was that it was like a father in a medieval family finding a wife for his son whom he himself fancies. Between all countries, large or small, there should be relations of equality, democracy, friendship, and mutual assistance and mutual benefit, not unequal and mutually harmful relations. The situation in North and South America now is like a medieval family: the United States is the patriarch, and the other countries are its children. We do not want this kind of relationship in Asia. In the past, Japan wanted to do this. What it said was co-existence and co-prosperity, but in reality it wanted to exploit and invade others. We have had five years of mutual relations with Burma. We can look at another five years, carry on another five years of co-existence and cooperation, to see whether we are just talking and being done with it, or whether we are genuinely putting it into practice. Your attitude is very good. When you have something to say, when you have doubts and dissatisfactions, you speak up. In the future, some problems will still arise between our two countries, and there will still be some mutual doubts and dissatisfactions. I hope we will both speak up to each other, so that measures can be taken to solve the problems. This way our relations can be better, and our friendly cooperation can develop further.

Nu: Frankly speaking, in the past we did not dare to speak up whenever we had something to say, for fear of being misunderstood as running dogs of Britain and the United States, for fear that the parties opposing us were reporting this to you. But now that we have met each other, have had discussions and reached an understanding, we are no longer afraid to speak our minds. This is one of the greatest achievements of my visit. After the talks at Premier Zhou's home yesterday, I already told this to my friend Premier Zhou. Yesterday I even requested that Premier Zhou release the American airmen, which is something I would not normally do and should not do, as it has the appearance of interfering in internal affairs. But because Premier Zhou and I have a very good mutual understanding, my raising it did not cause any misunderstanding from Premier Zhou, which made me very happy.

Mao: They will be released eventually, but they cannot be released now. We do not kill foreigners who have committed espionage; Chinese who have committed the same crime would be sentenced to death. But they have committed a crime, and we cannot but enforce the law. Our country is a large country, the reason being its large population and large territory, but it is not strong. Prime Minister U Nu has visited our automobile factory; we cannot even produce a single automobile, nor can we build a single airplane. So where is the strength? But, however weak we may be, it is not acceptable for the United States to impose its will on us. In the past in Yan'an, we never submitted. During the War of Liberation, we also arrested Americans who had intruded into our areas to conduct espionage. No matter how strong the United States is, how much steel it can produce, how many automobiles and airplanes it can turn out, we will not submit to its oppression. Toward friendly countries, our attitude is like that of brothers. Toward countries that oppress us, as long as they continue to do so, we will not submit for a single day. The airplane these American spies were on was shot down inside Chinese territory, in the Northeast, but the United States says they are prisoners of war. The real prisoners of war are the more than twenty thousand captured Chinese and Korean personnel, who are being held and not released, and have been handed over to Syngman Rhee[8] and Chiang Kai-shek. This is a completely unreasonable and outrageous matter. Countries like ours have been bullied a great deal. The countries of Asia and Africa have been bullied by the imperialist great powers for many years. These imperialist countries are mainly Britain, the United States, France, Germany, and Japan. We are still being bullied now. One day, when we are truly independent and have built up our own countries well, we can be bullied a little less. Your country is not small. You have a population of nearly twenty million, more than twice that of Australia. Your country's area is very large, equivalent to nine or ten Ceylons. Your country has all kinds of products, and your people are industrious and intelligent. All kinds of enterprises can be established step by step, such as manufacturing automobiles and producing steel. Your country has great potential, and we would like to see your country prosper.

Nu: Thank you.

Mao: If all the countries of Asia and Africa can be like this, then it will no longer be a few great powers that dominate. The population of Asia as a whole is more than half the world's population. Asia is also a good place, with two oceans: the Pacific and the Indian.

Nu: The situation in Burma is very special. It would be best if the Communist Party of China sent some impartial persons to Burma to study the situation. We would not only be very happy to receive them, but would also provide them with all kinds of conveniences. They could study on the ground the position of the Burmese government and the feelings of the Burmese people toward the insurgents.

Mao: It would be inappropriate for us to send an observation team to Burma; it would give the outside world a bad impression. Our ambassador and consuls can conduct research based on materials in newspapers and public documents. They cannot have direct contact with the opposition, but they can indirectly understand the opposition through legal parties. Our embassy conducts this kind of research, just as your embassy conducts research here. As for your own disputes, we cannot get involved.

Nu: You would be coming at our invitation, not against our will, so it is not interference in internal affairs. If we were to request it, you could even send troops, and it would not be interference in internal affairs.

Mao: One cannot say that whatever a government is willing to have is not interference in internal affairs. There are four situations: First, when allied countries are fighting against aggression and a common enemy, the army of one allied country can go to the territory of another allied country; this is not interference in internal affairs. Second, for one country to go to the territory of another country to establish military bases, to provide aid and loans with military and political conditions attached, for religious institutions established in another country to engage in espionage, etc., are all interference in internal affairs. Third, for matters purely within the scope of internal affairs, such as struggles between nationalities or between parties, if a foreign country gets involved, it is interference in internal affairs. Fourth, inviting foreign professors and experts is not interference in internal affairs; this is mutual assistance. The second and third types of situations are interference in internal affairs because they infringe upon a country's national interests. If we were to send an observation team to Burma to observe the disputes between nationalities and between parties, the Burmese government might not consider it interference in internal affairs, but other nationalities and other parties in Burma would have a different view, and other countries would also have a bad impression.

Nu: I had not foreseen this. In that case, I will not mention my suggestion!

Mao: The suggestion I am making to Prime Minister U Nu is not in the capacity of a government worker, but in the capacity of a party worker. I am not only the Chairman of the People's Republic of China, but also the Chairman of the Communist Party of China. I am making a suggestion to U Nu, Chairman of the Anti-Fascist People's Freedom League of Burma, in my capacity as Chairman of the Communist Party of China. Chairman Liu Shaoqi and I have both spoken to Prime Minister U Nu about some of China's experiences; this is an exchange of views between friends. As for whether the Burmese government will act accordingly, that is entirely for the Burmese government to decide based on its own situation. When we do business with Burma, we will never make it a condition that the Burmese government has better relations with a certain party.

Nu: I view the suggestions made to me by the Chairman and Chairman Liu as suggestions made by big brothers to a little brother. Big brothers are more experienced than a little brother. When I believe that the people making suggestions to me are honest, sincere, and dedicated to their people, I listen to their suggestions with the humility of a little brother toward his big brothers.

Mao: Ours is not a relationship of big brother and little brother; we are brothers born in the same year, same month, same day, and at the same time. Besides, Burma achieved independence in 1948, a year earlier than us.

Nu: I am very happy to have had the opportunity to hold these talks. There was a time when I did not know what kind of people I would meet in China, and was afraid I would meet someone like Hitler[9], who would pound the table and shout when he spoke. But I now find that my fears were all groundless. I am very happy about these sincere talks.

Mao: It is very natural for anyone to go from not understanding to understanding.

Printed according to the "Selected Diplomatic Works of Mao Zedong," published by the Central Party Literature Press and World Affairs Press in 1994. The original title was "The Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence Are a Long-Term Policy."

Notes
[1] The Five Principles, referring to the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, see note [5] on page 336 of this volume.
[2] Refers to the "Joint Communiqué of the Talks Between the Premiers of the People's Republic of China and the Union of Burma" issued in Beijing on December 12, 1954. Its main contents were: reaffirming the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence as the unswerving policy guiding the relations between the two countries; establishing consulates-general in appropriate cities of both countries; opening air routes, restoring highway traffic, and concluding postal and telecommunications agreements to promote economic and cultural exchanges between the two countries; protecting the legitimate rights and interests of each other's nationals and encouraging them to respect the laws and social customs of their country of residence; and resolving the border issue between the two countries through normal diplomatic channels.
[3] Ceylon, now Sri Lanka.
[4] Yao Zhongming, born in 1914 in Dong'e, Shandong. At the time, he was the Chinese Ambassador to Burma.
[5] In 1953, our country established the Xishuangbanna Dai Autonomous Region and the Dehong Dai and Jingpo Autonomous Region in Yunnan Province, which were changed to autonomous prefectures in 1955 and 1956, respectively.
[6] Nehru, at the time Prime Minister of India.
[7] Attlee, former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, at the time leader of the British Labour Party.
[8] Syngman Rhee, at the time President of South Korea.
[9] Hitler, see note [3] on page 94 of this volume.