Mao Zedong on the World Situation (A Conversation with Ms. Anna Louise Strong)
August 1946

Mao Zedong is one of Asia's famous leaders. The main reason for my visit to Yan'an was him. He had lived under blockade for nineteen years.

During these years, half were spent in the rice-producing areas of the south, in the Jiangxi Soviet Area; the other half were spent in the cold mountains of the northwest.

During these periods, he lived within Chiang Kai-shek's blockade, and for a time, also within the Japanese battle lines. Yet, even under this forced isolation, Mao Zedong continued to observe, plan, and organize China's future, a future that profoundly affects Asia and the world. Mao Zedong held no government positions, not even in the Border Region Government, which had Yan'an as its capital. He was the Chairman of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP had endured nineteen years of civil war and the War of Resistance Against Japan, growing and developing throughout this period. Now, the CCP has over two million members. He is also the ideologist and founder of a political system. This political system has been established in areas of North and Northeast China, covering 700,000 square kilometers of land and a population of 135 million (which is equivalent to the area east of the Mississippi River in the United States and the entire population of the United States).

This political system is called "New Democracy," and the areas where it is implemented are known as "Liberated Areas." However, Mao Zedong's name is known far beyond the Liberated Areas. In the famous Mount Emei in Sichuan, where Chiang Kai-shek resided after the central government moved its capital to Chongqing, an American friend spent a night with some local farmers. When this friend gained their trust, they said, "When the time comes, we are ready. We know that under the leadership of Zhu and Mao, life will be much better."

Mao Zedong, the inspirer of thousands upon thousands of democratically elected village governments; the initiator of the "land reform" unfolding in over a dozen provinces of China.

Mao Zedong on the World Situation 47
4 and 8, the leader of the greatly expanded army that Chiang Kai-shek could not dream of attacking without massive American support, lives in the mountains of northwest China, in a backward region with poor land. This is one of those seemingly "marginal" areas where, before the arrival of the Communists, a "great famine" would occur every five to seven years. It was only through continuous labor, the promotion of water conservancy, and the development of a "production movement" in which even the army and government personnel participated, that this region is able to have abundant food today.

Chairman Mao, like everyone else in Yan'an, lived in a cave dwelling. To be precise, he lived in four cave dwellings on a high hillside. They were part of a row of over a hundred cave dwellings on the hillside. I cannot pinpoint the exact hillside, because last week eight American-made planes bombed Yan'an, and the bombs fell near the cave dwelling where Chairman Mao had lived a month earlier. The people of Yan'an believed these bombs were aimed at Chairman Mao, but Mao Zedong had already moved.

We sat on the platform in front of Chairman Mao's four cave dwellings, gazing at the distant mountains bathed in the setting sun. Beside and below us was his garden, with tall corn stalks, large red tomatoes, and peanuts, which Mrs. Mao used to prepare a delicious meal for us. His young daughter played by his side, climbing onto his lap. Her curiosity, overcoming her shyness, made her run over to examine the foreign guest. Looking up about fifty feet to the cave dwellings above, children from an upper family peered through the grass at the interesting foreign woman visiting the Chairman.

The Chairman talked at length about the civil war, but he particularly enjoyed discussing world politics. In fact, when I visited him, he preferred to visit me. He wanted to know everything I could tell him about American politics, economics, and the labor movement. When I asked him how I could help him, he immediately said:
"Could you send me some recent American journals and books?" This isolated leader and thinker learned about the world from the mouths of visitors, from a few books that occasionally made it through the blockade, and from foreign news reports heard on a small radio by the window.

I asked him if he thought peace in China was possible through a political settlement in the near future. He said, "The American government will decide this question. If the American people withdraw their support for Chiang Kai-shek's reactionary forces fighting the civil war, then peace can be hoped for." "How long can Chiang Kai-shek fight if America stops supplying him, apart from the arms already given?" He replied, "More than a year." (This was said before America sold a large quantity of surplus military supplies to Chiang Kai-shek at one-quarter of the original price.) "Can he sustain himself economically for that long?" I asked him. I raised this question because foreigners in Shanghai predicted that Chiang's regime was too corrupt and on the verge of bankruptcy to wage a long war. Chairman Mao said, "Yes, he can, if he wants to." My understanding at the time was that many people in Chiang's controlled areas were on the verge of bankruptcy, but the bureaucrats supporting Chiang Kai-shek would ultimately go bankrupt. "What if America clearly states it will no longer provide aid?" Mao replied, "Currently, there are no signs of Chiang Kai-shek's side having any desire to stop the civil war in the short term." I then asked him, "How long can the Communist Party sustain itself?" "According to our own wishes, we don't want to fight even for a single day. But if we are forced to fight, we can fight until the war is over. This is not decided by us." "If the American people ask me what the Communist Party is fighting for, how should I explain it?" "Because Chiang Kai-shek's army comes to slaughter the peaceful people of China, and these people must defend themselves if they want to survive. Americans can understand this." I asked, "I heard that your land policy has changed, is this true?" Before the Anti-Japanese War, the Communist Party implemented a policy of land confiscation, taking land from landlords and giving it to the peasants who tilled it. During the Anti-Japanese War, in order to form a united front with the Chiang Kai-shek government, they revised this policy, implementing a policy of rent and interest reduction. It was said that this policy had now changed. Mao replied, "Yes, the peasants demand certain changes. They want to realize Mr. Sun Yat-sen's proposition—land to the tiller. Distribute the landlords' land. This demand is appropriate. However, we distinguish between traitorous landlords, local tyrants and evil gentry, and small and medium landlords. For the former, we adopt severe measures; for the latter, we are lenient. However, we always pay attention to ensuring that all landlords can live. We have many ways to achieve this goal. We are considering these methods." Chairman Mao discussed US-Soviet relations, illustrating them with a teacup and small wine glasses on the table. He said that, for now, talk of a US-Soviet war was just a smokescreen. It was put out by American reactionaries to cover up more pressing contradictions. These contradictions were: the contradiction between the American people and American reactionaries, and the contradiction between America and other countries in the capitalist world. He placed a large cup on one side of the table and said, "Now, this is the American reactionaries." Then he placed a row of small clay wine glasses around the large cup and said, "Surrounding them, first and foremost, are the American people." Then he placed a teacup on the other side of the table, "This is the Soviet Union." "Between the US and the Soviet Union are all the other capitalist countries..."! That was a row of cups of various sizes. Chairman Mao laughed as he arranged them, even adding some matchboxes and cigarette tins. "So, how can American reactionaries fight the Soviet Union? First, they must attack the American people. Now American reactionaries are already attacking the American people. They are politically and economically oppressing American workers and democrats." "To incite war, American reactionaries will certainly attack the American people more severely. They are preparing to implement fascism in America. The American people should oppose these reactionaries. I believe they will certainly do so." "If the reactionaries get past the American people, then next come the other capitalist countries in the world. American big capitalists are using anti-Soviet terror as an excuse to bring other capitalist countries under American control. This trick of the American reactionaries is very similar to the trick of Japanese imperialism, who used the same excuse in China to cover up their attack on the Chinese people." "In the Pacific, America now controls far more than all previous British spheres of influence. America controls Japan, China, half of Korea, and the South Pacific. It has long controlled Central and South America, and is attempting to control the entire British Empire and Western Europe. This is extremely unpleasant for these countries and their vast populations." "Today, the naval and air bases that America has established or is preparing to establish everywhere, people say these are to deal with the Soviet Union. That's right, they can all be used against the Soviet Union, but for now, the people primarily oppressed by them are not the Soviets, but the people of all other capitalist countries." "America uses its financial capital to control Britain and other capitalist countries. It uses commerce to put pressure on the economic organizations of all capitalist countries." "Soon, Britain will consider who is truly oppressing her, is it the Soviet Union or America? Bevin's pro-American, anti-Soviet policy will be opposed by the British people. American reactionaries will one day find themselves opposed by the people of the whole world." I asked him, "You said that a US-Soviet war is a smokescreen. Does this mean that this war will not happen?" Mao said, "I am not saying that American reactionaries do not want to fight the Soviet Union. They do. They dream of destroying socialist countries. American reactionaries attempt to rule the whole world, including the Soviet Union. But the Soviet Union is a powerful factor in striking down their delusion of world domination. This is why American reactionaries harbor extreme hatred for the Soviet Union. However, just as the First World War has just ended, they are again emphasizing a US-Soviet war and creating a war atmosphere, and people cannot help but doubt their intentions. Everyone knows that if America wants to attack the Soviet Union, she must pass through the British Empire, France, and China. This means that American reactionaries plan to first conquer these countries, making them American dependencies or colonies." "In such circumstances, will the people of these countries wait to be conquered? Of course not! They will rise up in resistance. I believe that under the oppression of American imperialism, the American people should unite with the people of all capitalist countries to oppose the attacks of American imperialism and its running dogs in these countries. Only the victory of this struggle can deter a Third World War; otherwise, a Third World War is inevitable." "Paper Tiger." "What do you think of my opinion?" Mao said with a smile. He was not at all dogmatic, but enjoyed discussion. I replied, "What do you think of the atomic bomb? From American bases in Iceland, Okinawa, and China, can't America bomb any city in the Soviet Union?" He said, "The atomic bomb is just a paper tiger... it looks terrible, but it's not as powerful as people imagine. In the long run, true power does not belong to the reactionaries, but to the people." Chairman Mao was very attentive and concerned about whether I clearly understood what a paper tiger was. Lu Dingyi, who was translating for me, initially used the word "scarecrow." Mao interrupted him, wanting to know what "scarecrow" was meant to explain. A "paper tiger" is a fierce-looking beast that frightens not crows but people, yet it is only made of paper. After we decided to use "paper tiger" instead of "scarecrow," Chairman Mao repeatedly used the word "paper tiger" in subsequent conversations, and each time he said it, he laughed at his own accent when pronouncing the word. "All reactionaries are paper tigers... In Russia before the October Revolution of 1917, who held real power? On the surface, it seemed to be the Tsar, but what was his so-called power? The storm of the October Revolution blew away the Tsar. Power ultimately belonged to the Soviets of workers, peasants, and soldiers. The Tsar was just a paper tiger..." "Wasn't Hitler also considered very powerful? History has proven that he was just a paper tiger. Mussolini was the same, and so was imperialist Japan..." We discussed various paper tigers, and each time one was mentioned, Chairman Mao added the English word to it, and each time he laughed at the unfamiliar pronunciation. He said, "Chiang Kai-shek is a Paper Tiger!" I stopped him and said, "Please wait. Remember I am a journalist. May I write down that Chairman Mao called Chiang Kai-shek a paper tiger?" He laughed and said, "Not just these few words, you must write down this entire conversation. If Chiang Kai-shek upholds the interests of the people, he is iron. If he betrays the people and wages war against the people, he is a paper tiger. Clearly, what Chiang is doing is the latter." "American reactionaries are also paper tigers. People seem to think they are very, very powerful. Chinese reactionaries use this 'power' of American reactionaries to frighten the Chinese people. Like all reactionaries in history, they will likewise prove to have no lasting power. The American people are powerful, and they have lasting power." "The Communist Parties of all countries in the world are also powerful. Our Chinese Communist Party only has millet and rifles, but it will ultimately be proven that millet plus rifles are more powerful than Chiang Kai-shek's planes and artillery. Although we and the Chinese people face many difficulties, and although we and the Chinese people will certainly have to endure long suffering under the combined attack of American expansionists and the Chinese reactionary clique, in the end all reactionaries will surely fail, and we will surely win. This is because reactionaries only represent reaction, while we represent progress."