(August 13, 1937)¹
Wales: Is there any news about the conclusion of the United Front negotiations
with the Guomindang?
Mao: Yes. The Red Army has just received an order from Nanjing to go to the
front to fight the Japanese under the command of the Nanjing government. Commander Zhu De has gone to Nanjing to join the National Defense Conference now
being held there. The political program of the unification of the two parties has not
yet been permitted by Chiang Kaishek to be published. Now the Communist Party
wants to publish a manifesto announcing the unification of the two parties in the
Chinese press, but Nanjing will not permit this publication and the manifesto can
only be published after actual fighting with Japan has begun.

Although the Communist Party now has a legal position and Zhu De can join
the National Defense Conference, on the other hand, political prisoners have not
yet been released by Nanjing. Moreover, up to the present the Communist Party
still cannot work publicly in the White districts. Some things in China are very
strange, you see. There is so far no order to release political prisoners, and only the
seven National Salvation leaders in Suzhou have been released.

Wales: I understand the Red Army is now being reorganized for the anti-Japanese
war in accordance with the terms of the negotiations with Nanjing. Is this true?

Our source for this document is the English text published by Helen Foster Snow (Nym
Wales) in My Yenan Notebooks, pp. 151-53. In a few instances, we have followed the wording in her contemporary typescript, conserved in the archives of the Hoover Institution at
Stanford University. Variations between the two versions are of no substantive importance
and have not been noted. Unlike the interview of July 4, 1937, which appears in Volume V,
this interview is not included in Mao Zedong zishu, and no Chinese text appears to exist.
Mao: No. The Red Army has not yet been reorganized, because Chiang Kaishek
has delayed [answering] this question and has not yet appointed a commander-inchief. However, we have received our number as a unit of the National Revolutionary Army. Now we can only send the Red Army to the front and change the
number there.

Wales: Has the name of the Red Army been changed, and the red star?

Mao: Not yet. We still use the old name of the Red Army. As to the red star, I don't
know whether it has been changed at the front or not. Nanjing is now supplying
the uniforms for the army and this question is decided by them.

Wales: Will the Red Army carry the Red Flag as well as the national flag in fighting the Japanese?

Mao: No. If we change the uniforms and the red star, of course, we must also
change our flag.

Wales: What is the reason for the delay on the part of Chiang Kaishek?

Mao: I suppose it is because Nanjing is afraid that if the manifesto is published it
will raise a strong reaction on the part of Japanese imperialism. Therefore, we
want to publish the manifesto and many other things after the fighting breaks out.
We have requested to publish the manifesto earlier than this, but Nanjing has
refused.

Wales: Are there any problems which cannot be settled between the Guomindang
and the Communist Party?

Mao: There are many questions not yet settled, such as the fact that Nanjing wants
to appoint the commander-in-chief and the head of the political department in the
army from Nanjing, and we refuse this. Other demands have been accepted by
Nanjing but are not yet realized, such as freeing political prisoners, granting freedom of speech and press, permitting the Communist Party to work openly in the
White districts, and the publication of the manifesto. Although Nanjing has accepted these demands, they are not yet realized.

Wales: Are there any Communist Party demands which Nanjing has not yet accepted?

Mao: Yes. (1) We have suggested a political program, which until now has not yet
been decided upon. (2) We want to publish the cooperation manifesto but this has
not been permitted. (3) Our request for the release of political prisoners has not
been granted.

Wales: What are the main points of the political program advocated by the Communist Party?
Mao: We have made ten demands in connection with the Japanese problem:2
1. To fight against Japan thoroughly and decisively, and to drive Japanese
imperialism out of China;
2. To stop all diplomatic negotiations with Japan and oppose the compromising and wavering attitude of the Nanjing government;
3. To mobilize the armies of the whole nation on the front to fight against the
Japanese;
4. To mobilize the whole body of the masses to join the war front against the
Japanese, to give the people the freedom of patriotism, and to give the people the
freedom to arm themselves;
5. To organize a national defense government of all parties, clearing out the
traitors and other forces of Japanese imperialism in China;
6. To establish an anti-Japanese diplomatic policy, enter into a military agreement with the USSR, and enter into a Pacific anti-Japanese agreement with England, America, and France;
7. To adopt an anti-Japanese financial policy, the principle of which financial
policy to be that everybody who has money must support the nation and that all
the property of Japanese imperialism must be confiscated. The principle of the
economic policy should be to boycott the use of Japanese goods and to increase
the use of national goods;
8. To improve and reconstruct the life of the people, including the removal of
the many unjust surtaxes, decreasing the taxes, and decreasing rents;
9. To develop the anti-Japanese national defense education;
10. To organize a united front of the whole country with the unification of the
two parties (Guomindang and Communist Party) as the basis for struggle against
the Japanese.
This is our great program for resisting Japan. These ten were sent to Nanjing,
asking the government to accept them. If we can realize these ten points, we can
strike down Japanese imperialism; if not, China will perish.3
Wales: Does the Communist Party now demand immediate war with Japan?

Mao: Yes, the Communist Party demands immediate war with Japan.
Wales: Does Nanjing agree to this demand?
Mao: Yes, the Nanjing government agrees with this. However, although Nanjing
has accepted this principle, only the future will prove the fact. Only to accept is no
use.
Wales: What do you estimate to be the future development of the war with Japan?
Mao: The policy of Japanese imperialism will determine the time this war breaks
out. The future of the war contains two possibilities: first, victory, and second,
defeat. How shall we achieve victory? We must struggle with hope and courage,
and continue this struggle, and we must realize the ten demands presented by the
Communist Party. Then victory is sure. If we do not, we shall fail.
Wales: Where will the Red Army front be during this war?
Mao: This is not yet determined.
Wales: Where do you anticipate the immediate center of Japanese war operations
to be in the near future?
Mao: Japan will perhaps attack Suiyuan and Chahar provinces, and we shall guard
these two territories. Besides these two provinces, the Beiping-Hankou and Tianjin-
Pukou railways will also be a main front, and also the Qingdao-Jinan railway in
Shandong. These places will be the main front of the war.

--- Notes

1. At the beginning of her handwritten notes, which are also found in the Hoover Institution archives, Nym Wales wrote: "Mao Tse-tung-August 11th. My interview written
13th." In My Yenan Notebooks, p. 151, she states, "Originally, I talked with him August 11
for this interview, but the date was changed to the 13th." In Nianpu, Vol. 2, p. 12, it is
indicated, however, that the interview took place on August 13, and we follow that dating.
As in the case of the July 4 interview, we have modified the spelling of Chinese names to
conform to the style of this edition.


2. The ten points listed here by Mao Zedong are essentially the same as those put forward
formally in the propaganda outline of August 25, 1937, translated below. The only substantive difference consists in the elimination of the second point, which had been overtaken by
events, and the addition of a new point, attacking the Chinese traitors, near the end of the
list, to bring the number back up to ten.

3. According to Nym Wales's handwritten notes, Mao placed particular emphasis on this
last sentence.