(May 15, 1937)

Wales: How are things going with regard to the recent peace negotiations between the Guomindang and the Chinese Communist Party?

Mao: The talks are still going on. The most important thing is to have political
guidelines shared by both parties, which provide the foundation for cooperation
between the two parties. Without such political guidelines by which both parties
will abide, cooperation cannot be achieved very well. The principle underlying
these guidelines is the realization of the revolutionary tasks of nationalism, democracy, and people's livelihood. As for the specific work of reorganizing the
military forces and changing the soviets, this will soon be under way. So far the
Guomindang's actions have been inadequate. For example, pressing charges
against national salvation leaders in Shanghai, treatment of the workers in
Shanghai cotton mills, and the various restrictions on rules and regulations set
forth by the National Assembly are all disappointing actions.

Wales: Has the danger of civil war yet been entirely eliminated?

Mao: On the surface, the crisis of civil war is over. It still exists beneath the
surface, but it is no longer important. If we were to say now that peace has been
fully established, the masses would become lax with regard to the movement to
"consolidate the peace." At present, civil war has not yet been halted on a
nationwide scale. For its part, the Chinese Communist Party has already ordered
the Red troops scattered throughout the country to stop fighting, but
Guomindang troops are still engaging in "suppression." For example, battles
continue to be waged in the Fujian-Zhejiang-Jiangxi border region, the Hubei-Henan-Anhui border region, the Hunan-Jiangxi border region, the Hunan-Hubei-Jiangxi border region, and other places. We are now appealing to the
Guomindang to stop attacking these regions. As for antagonism between Nanjing
and the localities, it does exist, and only by practicing a thoroughgoing democracy can such antagonism and the threat of civil war be eliminated altogether.

We have translated the text of this interview from Mao Zedong ji, Vol. 5, pp. 223-30,
where it is reproduced from Mao Zedong lunwen ji, published in December 1937 by the
Dazhong chubanshe in Shanghai. It also appears, with one small omission indicated below,
in Mao Zedong wenji, Vol. 1, pp. 497-504, where it is likewise taken from a contemporary
publication. Nym Wales' English version does not appear to be available.

Wales: How does the Communist Party view the various factions in Nanjing?
Mao: We want to unite with all Guomindang elements who are sympathetic with
the national democratic revolution and work on explaining things to those who
are unsympathetic, so that they understand and cease to obstruct the national
democratic revolution. A Guomindang Left-wing movement in support of peace,
democracy, and the War of Resistance is developing, and its supporters want to
see the whole nation united, the restoration of Sun Yatsen's revolutionary Three
People's Principles, the transformation of the Guomindang, and the restoration
of its revolutionary spirit. There is another group of people who are not
sufficiently resolute, do not thoroughly accept the task of a national democratic
revolution, and are suspicious of cooperation between the Guomindang and the
Communist Party. They are struggling, but the people's mission has been compelling them and influencing them, causing them to come over to the side of the
people. There is yet another group of people existing within the Guomindang
known as the "pro-Japanese" faction, and the whole country is dissatisfied with
them, including most of the people within the Guomindang. If these people do
not change their attitude, they will cut themselves off from the people and from
the Guomindang.
Wales: What kind of progress has the united front made since the Xi'an Incident?
Mao: There has been some progress on the united front since the Xi'an Incident.
Most important is the closer relationship between the two parties, the
Guomindang and the Communist Party. And then those who have been suspicious of Communist Party policies have also changed their attitudes somewhat,
so that they no longer are opposed to cooperation between the Guomindang and
the Communist Party. As for opposition to a peaceful solution to the Xi'an
Incident by the "Leftists," this has also decreased somewhat. But distrust of the
Nanjing government within cultural circles, among students, and in the public
opinion still actually exists because, up until now, Nanjing has not yet shown in
concrete fashion any thorough and resolute changes, has continued to retain
many erroneous policies, and has thereby evoked nationwide distrust. We say,
"Everyone should get to work," and a thorough change on Nanjing's part depends on continuing work by all the nation's people; we cannot wait for it to
change automatically by itself. The future for the united front is hopeful. What is
extremely obvious is that there must be unity within the country if we are to
achieve the goal of resisting Japan.
Wales: What are the reactions of the various parties and factions within the
country towards the united front?
Mao: Except for the Chinese traitors, all other parties and factions are sympathetic to nationwide unity. Many figures among the bourgeoisie expressed
approval and support for the peaceful policy adopted by the Communist Party in
the Xi'an Incident, but another group of diehard elements took an oppositional
stance. If these elements do not change their attitude, then, regardless of their
subjective views, they are in fact actually helping Japanese imperialism. As far
as we know, those who most vociferously oppose domestic unity are precisely
the same Chinese traitors who are directly under Japanese command. For instance, the Trotskyite elements and their ilk are obvious examples. The activities
of such elements are without a doubt the actions of Chinese traitors. Our way of
dealing with this group of people is to do everything possible to expose their
schemes so that they are unable to fool the people, and so that the whole Chinese
people will recognize them as the common enemy of the entire nation and rally
together against them.
Wales: How can the problem of local forces standing in opposition against
Nanjing be solved?
Mao: The existence of the antagonism between local strongholds and Nanjing is
not conducive to resisting foreign aggression. Our policy is to reduce such antagonism as much as possible to achieve the goal of uniting against the foreign
aggressor. To reach this goal, Nanjing and the various provinces should move a
step closer to each other. The main thing is that only once there is progress on
the issue of democracy can the antagonism be eliminated and both sides embark
on the great road to unity for resistance against Japan.
Wales: Within the policies of the united front, how can the problem of class
struggle be appropriately solved?
Mao: Before the class system is abolished altogether, it is impossible to eliminate class contradictions. But in the face of a war of resistance against Japan, we
should have an appropriate solution to this problem. For this reason, in the
program of the united front we have proposed that, politically, the people be
given democratic rights and, economically, that their livelihoods be improved.
The workers and peasants have endured political and economic oppression, so
they are bound to rise up in rebellion. Only by granting democratic rights and
improved livelihoods can these contradictions be reduced. In the joint political
program now in the process of being negotiated with the Guomindang, we plan
to propose that the workers and peasants be granted freedom of assembly, association, and speech, and universal suffrage. For the workers, it is necessary to raise
their pay and improve their working conditions. For the peasants, rents and taxes
should be reduced. As for the land question, it should be resolved through establishment of laws and other appropriate means.
Wales: Why are you placing such an emphasis on the question of democracy?

Mao: I have on many other previous occasions mentioned the relationship between democracy and resistance against Japan. We seek domestic peace and
unity through the war of resistance, but without democracy, peace cannot be
consolidated and there cannot be true unity. Resistance against Japan is something in which the people of the whole country must participate. Without democracy, the common people cannot participate; without peace and unity and
without the participation of the people, a war of resistance becomes impossible,
and even if there were such a war, victory could not be guaranteed. Therefore, a
democratic system is a prerequisite for victory in a war of resistance against
Japan. It cannot be done without. The reason we place such an emphasis on the
question of democracy is that we want to defeat Japanese imperialism.
Wales: How can the realization of democratic politics be facilitated?
Mao: The realization of democratic politics depends on a democratic movement.
If the broad masses of people do not demand and push forward a movement for
democracy, democratic politics will not be realized. People of all circles and all
parties and factions should unite to strive to win democratic rights. The whole
nation's military personnel should support the democratic movement because the
only way to save China, defeat Japan, and avoid the threat of being reduced to
the status of a colony is to put into practice democratic politics and grant the
people the freedom to participate in political affairs. As for the concrete carrying
out of a democratic movement, attention should be placed on the election, convocation, and meeting of the National Assembly, and on winning absolute freedom of speech, assembly, association, and publication, patriotism, and national
salvation. These are minimal democratic rights. If the whole country can move in
this direction, then a united democratic republic can be realized.
Wales: What is the Communist Party's attitude toward the current National
Assembly?
Mao: Today's National Assembly has a national defense nature, and at the same
time serves as a bridge in the transition from dictatorship to democracy. Therefore, the whole country should take part in the National Assembly, and the
Communist Party intends to do so. Nanjing's regulations regarding the election,
convocation, and meeting of the National Assembly are not democratic, and
unless they are revised the role of the National Assembly will be extremely
limited. For this reason, the whole country should join together to demand that
Nanjing modify its inappropriate regulations. The people should take part in the
election of the National Assembly; its convocation and meeting should be given
ample freedom; its tasks should not be limited to discussion of a constitution but
must instead be expanded to include thorough and concrete discussion of guidelines for resistance against Japan and national salvation. The Communist Party's
opinions regarding the National Assembly have already been publicized nationwide 1937 667
ally and raised with the Guomindang, and negotiations are still under way, with
the goal of having the National Assembly carry out the tasks of democracy and
resistance against Japan.
Wales: What are the Communist Party's views on the release of political prisoners?
Mao: The Communist Party long ago raised the demand to release political prisoners all over the country, and it now continues to do so and has made this a part
of its negotiations with the Guomindang. If Nanjing wants to show that it has
completely changed its policies, there is no reason not to release the political
prisoners. At present, however, the Guomindang has made no concrete moves on
this question; although it says it agrees to release the political prisoners, it has not
actually done so, and there are instances of further arrests for the crime of patriotism. The Suzhou trial¹ of national salvation leaders was a tremendous disappointment, and even many Nanjing insiders were dissatisfied about it. If Nanjing wants
to show sincere determination to start anew with the people, it should immediately
release the seven national salvation leaders and proclaim their acquittal.
Wales: What is your opinion about preparing for the war of resistance?
Mao: Whenever Japanese imperialism attacks us, we shall always put up an
immediate fight against it. We are always at the ready to handle any incident,
whenever and wherever war might break out. But if, for the time being, Japan
does not launch a large-scale armed invasion of China, and instead adopts a
rather mild policy during the period of its preparation for invasion, we should
take advantage of this time to prepare ourselves actively for a war of resistance.
What we call "preparations" has different connotations from the Guomindang's
preparations theory of the past. The Guomindang's preparations theory in the
past was first to attain peace within and then to resist aggression from without.
This amounts to a ceaseless civil war, exhausting the strength to resist Japan. The
preparations being made today, on the other hand, are to stop the civil war,
strengthen domestic peace, realize democratic politics, open up to the people all
freedoms necessary for national salvation, organize, train, and arm the popular
masses, and, at the same time, to hasten the completion of the military, political,
financial, economic, cultural, and educational preparatory work for the resistance. China's war of resistance demands that we win the final victory. The
scope of this victory is not limited to Shanhaiguan or to the Northeast, but should
include the liberation of Korea and Taiwan, and even the success of the people's
revolutionary war of liberation within Japan.² This is our opinion about preparing for the war of resistance.

1. See above, the relevant note to Mao's speech of May 7, 1937.
2. In the Mao Zedong wenji version, this sentence ends with "should include the
liberation of Taiwan," and makes no mention either of Korea or of a war of liberation in
Japan itself.

Wales: What is your speculation about the outcome of the Sino-Japanese War?
Mao: There are two possible scenarios for the outcome of the war. One is that
China wins total victory over Japanese imperialism and the Chinese nation obtains freedom and liberation. The success of the domestic united front, the close
unity of the people and the government, the victory of the international peace
front, and assistance from forces for peace within Japan are prerequisites to
realizing this scenario. But the Chinese people's own unity and determined war
of resistance are the primary and deciding factors in realizing this scenario.
Without these conditions, the war of resistance has no future. The other possibility is that Japanese imperialism achieves its goal of turning China into a colony
exclusively occupied by itself. This danger also exists; but this danger will arise
only under the conditions that the Chinese people are scattered, disunited, do not
wage a war of resistance or do not do so resolutely and thoroughly, and China
does not join together with its helpful friends all over the world. If the Chinese
people remain asleep, their house will be taken from them by their enemies. The
Communist Party is struggling for the attainment of the first scenario. The proposal of a national united front is for the purpose of striving for such a scenario.
We call upon all parties, factions, and classes to oppose resolutely the transformation of China into a colony, and to demand freedom and liberation for China.
Moreover, in order to win victory for such freedom and liberation, we must fight
the enemy to the very end.
Wales: What is your view of the recent rapprochement between Great Britain
and Japan?
Mao: The Japanese rulers and the government of the British Conservative Party,
trying to ameliorate the conflict between them, are conducting compromise negotiations to achieve their goal of sacrificing China. The Chinese people cannot
simply let themselves be slaughtered. The Chinese people should pay close
attention to this. If Nanjing shows any wavering or passivity in defending the
national interests, the people and the patriotic elements within the Guomindang
will never forgive them. At the same time, we must know that the compromises
between Britain and Japan over the China question do not now have any good
foundations. It is true that compromises between Britain and Japan always exist
and are possible, but there are limitations as to time and place. Britain wants to
maintain the status quo, but the substance of this status quo is in a constant state
of flux. This can be seen from the British concessions, one after another, since
the "September Eighteenth Incident." Basically, Japan's policy of exclusive
occupation of China and the open door policy held by Britain and the other
imperialists stand in opposition to one another, although certain temporary and
partial compromises are possible because Britain had originally been ready to
sell out China's interests to achieve her own self-interested goals. No matter to
what extent Britain and Japan compromise with each other, the Chinese people
should not ignore for one second the issue of the survival of the Chinese nation.
In the anti-Japanese movement we cannot be overly trusting of Britain. As long
as we clearly understand Britain's nature, we will not be fooled by her. China
must not be completely isolated, and Sun Yatsen's policy of alliance with the
Soviet Union has its realistic political significance today. The Sino-Soviet relationship should become closer and improve. The interests of the United States in
the Far East are also incompatible with Japan's mainland policies, so the United
States should not look on China's problem with indifference. We should make a
distinction between the British Conservative Party and the vast British people.
The Conservative Party, having vacillated in its West European policy between
the peace front and the fascist front, has incurred the great dissatisfaction of its
own people, and if on the China question it continues to gang up with the
Japanese aggressors and seeks concessions, then not only will the Chinese people oppose it, but even the British people will not necessarily show sympathy.
The organization of the international peace front is expanding greatly, and it is
also preparing to punish all fascists. The Chinese liberation movement and the
world liberation movement are closely related. Our future is absolutely bright.
Wales: What are your hopes for the northern youth?
Mao: The northern youth are the vanguard of the national liberation struggle.
The majority of them should unite and fight to the end for the national democratic revolution. Many among them are disgusted with the current situation, and
the solution should be sought through a collective movement. This movement is
the struggle for the realization of democracy and resistance against Japan. The
northern youth should intensify their interest in striving for democracy and freedom. Struggling for patriotic democratic freedom is one of the crucial links in
today's political life. If various people only talk about resisting Japan and do not
understand the actual struggle for democratic politics, then there will be no
effective resistance against Japan. Bourgeois reformism is having some influence
on the northern youth, attempting to pull them from the front lines back to the
rear, from rising up back to normalcy and tranquillity, from positions of leadership back to tailism, wiping out the leadership role of the northern youth in the
national democratic revolution. The northern youth should struggle against such
reformists, and strictly scrutinize and completely overcome the tendencies and
influences of the reformists.