An Interveiw with Lenin

Three Questions and the Answers
The Bullitt Peace Terms still hold good
Bolsheviks and Propaganda among Western peoples

By Our Special Correspondent
W. T. Goode

The interview with Lenin had been a matter of some difficulty to arrange; not because he is unapproachable -- he goes about
with as little external trappings or precautions as myself -- but because
his time is so precious. He, even more than the other Commissaries, is
continuously at work. But at last I had secured a free moment and drove
from my room, across the city, to one of the gates of the Kremlin. I had
taken the precaution at the beginning of my stay to secure a pass that
set me free from any possible molestation from officials or police, and
this gave me admission to the Kremlin enclosure. Entrance to the Kremlin
is naturally guarded; it is the seat of the Executive Government; but the
formalities are no more than have to be observed at Buckingham Palace or
the House of Commons. A small wooden office beyond the bridge, where a
civilian grants passes, and a few soldiers, ordinary Russian soldiers,
one of whom receives and verifies the pass, were all there was to be seen
at this entrance. It is always said that Lenin is guarded by Chinese. There
were no Chinese here.

I entered, mounted the hill, and drove across to the building
where Lenin lives, in the direction of the large platform where formerly
stood the Alexander statue, now removed. At the foot of the staircase were
two more soldiers, Russian youths, but still no Chinese. I went up by a
lift to the top floor, where I found two other young Russian soldiers,
but no Chinese, nor in any of the three visits which I paid to the Kremlin
did I see any.

I hung up my hat and coat in the ante-chamber, passed through
a room in which clerks were at work, and entered the room in which the
Executive Committee of the Council of People's Commissaries holds its meetings
-- in other words, the Council Chamber of the Cabinet of the Soviet Republic.
I had kept my appointment strictly to time, and my companion passed on
(rooms in Russia are always en suite) to let Lenin know that I had arrived.
I then followed into the room in which Lenin works and waited a minute
for his coming. Here let me say that there is no magnificence about this
suite of rooms. They are well and solidly furnished; the Council Chamber
is admirably arranged for its purpose, but everything is simple, and there
is an atmosphere of hard work about everything. Of the meretricious splendour
I had heard so much there is not a trace.

Lenin

I had but the time to make these observations, mentally, when Lenin entered
the room. He is a man of middle height, about fifty years old, active,
and well proportioned. His features, at first sight, seem to have a slight
Chinese cast, and his hair and pointed beard have a ruddy brown tinge.
The head is well domed, and his brow broad and well raised. He has a pleasant
expression in talking, and indeed his manner can be described as distinctly
prepossessing. He speaks clearly in a well modulated voice, and throughout
the interview he never hesitated or betrayed the slightest confusion. Indeed,
the one clearly cut impression he left on one was that here was a clear,
cold brain, a man absolutely master of himself and of his subject, expressing
himself with a lucidity that was as startling as it was refreshing.

My companion had seated himself on the other side of the table
to act as interpreter in case of need; he was not wanted. After a word
of introduction I asked what I should speak, French or German. He replied
that if I did not object he would prefer to speak in English, and that
if I would only speak clearly and slowly he would be able to follow everything.
I agreed, and he was as good as his word, for only once during the threequarters of an hour that the meeting lasted did he stumble at a word, and
then only for an instant; he had seized me meaning almost immediately.

The Questions

I ought to state here that the thought of the interview had engaged me
from the moment I had entered Russia. There were so many things I wanted
to know, scores of questions occurred to me, and to secure the answers
I longed to have would have required a discursive talk of hours had I begun
my task with this interview. But by leaving it to the last my month's work
had brought the answer to many of the questions, and others had been settled
by the radiographic interview submitted from Lyons by a combination of
American journalists. It behoved me therefore to utilise to the best advantage
the time rigidly apportioned to me, wedged in between two important meetings.
I had therefore reduced all my curiosity to three questions, to which the
authoritative answers could be given only by Lenin himself, the head of
the Government of the Soviet Republic. He knew quite well who I was; he
did not know what I wanted. There could therefore be no question of preparation
as far as he was concerned.

I had spoken of my questions to only one man, the commissary who
accompanied me, and he became very depressed and gave it as his opinion
that Lenin would not answer them. To his unfeigned astonishment, the questions
were answered promptly, simply and decisively, and when the interview was
ended my companion naively expressed his wonderment.

The guidance of the interview was left to me. I began at once.
I wanted to know how far the proposals which Mr Bullitt took to the Conference
at Paris still held good. Lenin replied that they still held good, with
such modifications as the changing military situation might indicate. Later
he added that in the agreement with Bullitt it had been stated that the
changing military situation might bring in alterations. Continuing, he
said that Bullitt was unable to understand the strength of British and
American capitalism, but that if Bullitt were President of the United States
peace would soon be made.

Then I took up again the thread by asking what was the attitude
of the Soviet Republic to the small nations who had split off the Russian
Empire and had proclaimed their independence.

He replied that Finland's independence had been recognised in
November, 1917; that he (Lenin) had personally handed to Swinhufrod, then
head of the Finnish Republic, the paper on which this recognition was officially
stated; that the Soviet Republic had announced some time previously that
no soldiers of the Soviet Republic would cross the frontier with arms in
their hands; that the Soviet Republic had decided to create a neutral strip
or zone between their territory and Esthonia, and would declare this publicly;
that it was their principle to recognise the independence of all small
nations, and that finally they had just recognised the independence of
the Bashkir Republic -- and, he added, the Bashkir are a weak and backward
people.

Propaganda

For the third time I took up the questioning, asking what guarantees could
be offered against official propaganda among the Western peoples, if by
any chance relations with the Soviet Republic were opened. His reply was
that they had declared to Bullitt that they were ready to sign an agreement
not to make official propaganda. As a Government they were ready to undertake
that no official propaganda should take place. If private persons undertook
propaganda they would do it at their own risk and be amenable to the laws
of the country in which they acted. Russia has no laws, he said, against
propaganda by British people. England has such laws; therefore Russia is
the more liberal-minded. They would permit, he said, The British, or French,
or American Government to carry out propaganda of their own. He cried out
against the Defence of the Realm Act, and, as for freedom of the press
in France, he declared that he had just been reading Henri Barbusse's novel
"Clarte" in which there were two censored patches. "They censor novels
in free, democratic France?"

I asked if he had any general statement to make, upon which he
replied that the most important thing for him to say was that the Soviet
system is the best, and that English workers and agricultural labourers
would accept it if they knew it. He hoped that after peace the British
Government would not prohibit the publication of the Soviet Constitution.
That, morally, the Soviet system is even now victorious, and that the [proof
of this statement is seen in the persecution of Soviet literature in free,
democratic countries.

My allotted time had expired, and, knowing that he was needed
elsewhere, I rose and thanked him, and making my way back though Council
Chamber and clerks' room to the stair and courtyard, where were the young
Russian guards, I picked up my droshky and drove back to my room to think
over my meeting with Vladimir Ulianoff.

[A new photograph of Lenin, taken in the courtyard of the Kremlin,
was brought back by Mr. Goode, and appears in the Image archive.]

The Bullitt Peace Terms

In the account of his mission in Soviet Russia which
Mr Bullitt gave to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, he says that
he received a note from Mr. Kerr, Mr. Lloyd George's confidential secretary,
giving the conditions upon which, in Mr. Kerr's opinion, peace could be
concluded with the Bolsheviks. He took these with him to Moscow and received
from the Bolshevik Government a "projected peace proposal" which the Bolsheviks
were prepared on their part to accept if it should be put forward formally
by the Allies. This "peace proposal" may be summarised as follows:

All the Governments formed within the territory of the old Russian Empire
to keep full power over the territories occupied by them until the inhabitants
should declare the form of Government preferred by them.

None of such Governments to overthrow another by force.

The blockade of Russia to be raised.

Re-establishment of commercial relations.

All produce existing or received in Russia to be accessible to all classes
of the population, without any distinction.

All the above Russian Governments to grant full and complete amnesty to
political opponents, soldiers included.

The Allied troops to evacuate Russia.

Simultaneous reduction of the Soviet and anti-Soviet armies to peace footing.

All the above Russian Governments to recognise, jointly, the financial
obligations of the former Russian Empire.

Freedom of residence and movement of all Russian subjects over all parts
of Russia.

Repatriation of all prisoners of war.

Mr Bullitt said that the Soviet Government wished to add a further clause
to these terms, viz.:

The Soviet Government is most anxious to have a semi-official guaranty
from the American and British Governments that they will do their utmost
to see to it that France lives up to the conditions of the Armistice.

Mr Bullitt, however, says that he refused to embody this clause in his
final document.